Discussion:
Obama bailed out GM and helped create 75,000 jobs.
(too old to reply)
The Modern Ghetto
2012-09-23 23:52:08 UTC
Permalink
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.


 
Wayne
2012-09-24 16:30:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
And GM bond holders (aka, probably in the average Joe's IRA or 401K) got
screwed big time, by Obama's unilateral rewriting of contract law.
Orval Fairbairn
2012-09-25 00:31:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wayne
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
And GM bond holders (aka, probably in the average Joe's IRA or 401K) got
screwed big time, by Obama's unilateral rewriting of contract law.
... and Obama saved the UAW, whose contracts would have had to be
rewritten if GM had gone through the normal bankruptcy proceedings.

Bottom line: It was not a bailout of GM, but a bailout of Obama's
allies, the UAW.
BeamMeUpScotty
2012-09-25 02:13:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Post by Wayne
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
And GM bond holders (aka, probably in the average Joe's IRA or 401K) got
screwed big time, by Obama's unilateral rewriting of contract law.
... and Obama saved the UAW, whose contracts would have had to be
rewritten if GM had gone through the normal bankruptcy proceedings.
When the UAW demands too much and bankrupts the company, maybe the UAW
should suffer the consequence of their actions.
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Bottom line: It was not a bailout of GM, but a bailout of Obama's
allies, the UAW.
Yes and everyone lost except the UAW, who were the very problem to begin
with.
Bob
2012-09-25 11:58:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Post by Wayne
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
And GM bond holders (aka, probably in the average Joe's IRA or 401K) got
screwed big time, by Obama's unilateral rewriting of contract law.
... and Obama saved the UAW, whose contracts would have had to be
rewritten if GM had gone through the normal bankruptcy proceedings.
When the UAW demands too much and bankrupts the company, maybe the UAW
should suffer the consequence of their actions.
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Bottom line: It was not a bailout of GM, but a bailout of Obama's
allies, the UAW.
Yes and everyone lost except the UAW, who were the very problem to begin
with.
GM management signed every one of those contracts.
Barry Bruyea
2012-09-25 15:06:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Post by Wayne
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
And GM bond holders (aka, probably in the average Joe's IRA or 401K) got
screwed big time, by Obama's unilateral rewriting of contract law.
... and Obama saved the UAW, whose contracts would have had to be
rewritten if GM had gone through the normal bankruptcy proceedings.
When the UAW demands too much and bankrupts the company, maybe the UAW
should suffer the consequence of their actions.
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Bottom line: It was not a bailout of GM, but a bailout of Obama's
allies, the UAW.
Yes and everyone lost except the UAW, who were the very problem to begin
with.
GM management signed every one of those contracts.
A fact that seems to escape most people.
Orval Fairbairn
2012-09-25 15:22:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Post by Wayne
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
And GM bond holders (aka, probably in the average Joe's IRA or 401K) got
screwed big time, by Obama's unilateral rewriting of contract law.
... and Obama saved the UAW, whose contracts would have had to be
rewritten if GM had gone through the normal bankruptcy proceedings.
When the UAW demands too much and bankrupts the company, maybe the UAW
should suffer the consequence of their actions.
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Bottom line: It was not a bailout of GM, but a bailout of Obama's
allies, the UAW.
Yes and everyone lost except the UAW, who were the very problem to begin
with.
GM management signed every one of those contracts.
Yes -- they should have been replaced in a normal bankruptcy
reorganization, too. The losers were the GM bondholders.
Nickname unavailable
2012-09-27 18:46:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Post by Bob
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Post by Wayne
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
And GM bond holders (aka, probably in the average Joe's IRA or 401K) got
screwed big time, by Obama's unilateral rewriting of contract law.
... and Obama saved the UAW, whose contracts would have had to be
rewritten if GM had gone through the normal bankruptcy proceedings.
When the UAW demands too much and bankrupts the company, maybe the UAW
should suffer the consequence of their actions.
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Bottom line: It was not a bailout of GM, but a bailout of Obama's
allies, the UAW.
Yes and everyone lost except the UAW, who were the very problem to begin
with.
GM management signed every one of those contracts.
Yes -- they should have been replaced in a normal bankruptcy
reorganization, too. The losers were the GM bondholders.
ask any bond holder what do they think of vulture/take over
capitalism.
Orval Fairbairn
2012-09-28 03:58:09 UTC
Permalink
In article
Post by Nickname unavailable
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Post by Bob
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Post by Wayne
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
And GM bond holders (aka, probably in the average Joe's IRA or 401K) got
screwed big time, by Obama's unilateral rewriting of contract law.
... and Obama saved the UAW, whose contracts would have had to be
rewritten if GM had gone through the normal bankruptcy proceedings.
When the UAW demands too much and bankrupts the company, maybe the UAW
should suffer the consequence of their actions.
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Bottom line: It was not a bailout of GM, but a bailout of Obama's
allies, the UAW.
Yes and everyone lost except the UAW, who were the very problem to begin
with.
GM management signed every one of those contracts.
Yes -- they should have been replaced in a normal bankruptcy
reorganization, too. The losers were the GM bondholders.
ask any bond holder what do they think of vulture/take over
capitalism.
They usually make out pretty well -- unlike the bondholders in
Government Motors.
Nickname unavailable
2012-09-28 05:49:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Orval Fairbairn
In article
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Post by Bob
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Post by Wayne
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
And GM bond holders (aka, probably in the average Joe's IRA or 401K)
got
screwed big time, by Obama's unilateral rewriting of contract law.
... and Obama saved the UAW, whose contracts would have had to be
rewritten if GM had gone through the normal bankruptcy proceedings.
When the UAW demands too much and bankrupts the company, maybe the UAW
should suffer the consequence of their actions.
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Bottom line: It was not a bailout of GM, but a bailout of Obama's
allies, the UAW.
Yes and everyone lost except the UAW, who were the very problem to begin
with.
GM management signed every one of those contracts.
Yes -- they should have been replaced in a normal bankruptcy
reorganization, too. The losers were the GM bondholders.
 ask any bond holder what do they think of vulture/take over
capitalism.
They usually make out pretty well -- unlike the bondholders in
Government Motors.
not really. pre packaged bankruptcy screws lots of people. romney
ought to know:)))




http://hotair.com/archives/2012/05/08/does-mitt-romney-deserve-credit-for-the-recovery-of-the-u-s-auto-industry/

You know, liberals, Obama did pretty much follow Romney’s advice in
restructuring the auto industry
posted at 8:09 pm on May 8, 2012 by Morgen Richmond






Mitt Romney stirred up a new round of liberal outrage today by stating
in an interview with a local Cleveland TV station that he’ll “take a
lot of credit” for the recovery of the auto industry. Romney’s point
was that President Obama followed his advice in putting GM and
Chrysler through bankruptcy, in order to eliminate their debt load and
re-structure their benefit obligations to the UAW. But this was
probably not the most politically adept thing for Romney to say given
that he was not in a position in 2009 to directly impact any aspect of
the auto bailout. But here’s the thing: he’s mostly right about Obama
following his advice. From a December 2008 interview with Greta Van
Susteren on Fox:

But let me make a couple of points in this regard. One is, we want the
U.S. auto industry to survive, to grow, to thrive. Two is that if we
just send money to Detroit and say, Keep playing the game the way you
have, that’s not going to happen. What’ll happen is the industry will
decline and decline over the years until it doesn’t exist anymore.
So what is needed is the opportunity to dramatically restructure the
costs of making cars by Ford, Chrysler and General Motors. And for
that to happen, you’re going to have to have either a very powerful
czar of some kind who can step in and open up contracts and change the
basic structure of the industry, or go through a pre-packaged, managed
bankruptcy. The government is going to be part of this process either
through the courts or through a super-powerful car czar, if you will.
But business as usual is not the way to preserve these jobs and to
build a brighter future for the many people who work in the auto
industry…
If the car czar, which exists in the current bill — and I haven’t read
the current bill, so I can’t be too specific in that regard. But if
that car czar doesn’t have the authority to actually reduce the costs
in the industry and make these companies competitive, then we will
just be throwing good money after bad.
And the right thing to do here is to make sure that we do restructure
these costs. That happens in bankruptcy. There are some down sides in
bankruptcy, too. They could be alleviated by government participating
in the process, either through a pre-packaged bankruptcy, they call
it, where you agree to terms beforehand, go through bankruptcy to dot
the I’s and cross the T’s. Or it could be done through a special piece
of legislation, giving — giving this car czar real authority.
(Full transcript available here.)
For the record, President Obama came to the exact same conclusion four
months and tens of billions of bailout dollars later. At the
insistence of the White House, GM and Chrysler went through “pre-
packaged” bankruptcy proceedings in June and July of 2009, shedding
tens of billions of dollars of financial obligations and embarking on
the road to recovery (such as it is).
Now again, I doubt Romney will gain much positive traction from trying
to claim any credit for this, and certainly not “a lot of credit” as
he said today. But Romney has to find a way to counter this narrative
that the U.S. auto industry would be defunct if the decision has been
left up to him. This is simply not the case, and even in his
infamous ”Let Detroit go Bankrupt” editorial in the New York Times, he
made the exact same case he does above.  The facts are on his side,
and he should continue to push this. But maybe Romney should tweak his
messaging a bit and give the President a little credit instead…for
ultimately adopting a course of action he recommended months earlier.
emoneyjoe
2012-09-25 15:57:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Post by Wayne
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
And GM bond holders (aka, probably in the average Joe's IRA or 401K) got
screwed big time, by Obama's unilateral rewriting of contract law.
... and Obama saved the UAW, whose contracts would have had to be
rewritten if GM had gone through the normal bankruptcy proceedings.
When the UAW demands too much and bankrupts the company, maybe the UAW
should suffer the consequence of their actions.
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Bottom line: It was not a bailout of GM, but a bailout of Obama's
allies, the UAW.
Yes and everyone lost except the UAW, who were the very problem to begin
with.
GM management signed every one of those contracts.
I have never seen any information about
GM common stock holders, what about them?
BeamMeUpScotty
2012-09-25 16:26:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by emoneyjoe
Post by Bob
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Post by Wayne
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
And GM bond holders (aka, probably in the average Joe's IRA or 401K) got
screwed big time, by Obama's unilateral rewriting of contract law.
... and Obama saved the UAW, whose contracts would have had to be
rewritten if GM had gone through the normal bankruptcy proceedings.
When the UAW demands too much and bankrupts the company, maybe the UAW
should suffer the consequence of their actions.
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Bottom line: It was not a bailout of GM, but a bailout of Obama's
allies, the UAW.
Yes and everyone lost except the UAW, who were the very problem to begin
with.
GM management signed every one of those contracts.
I have never seen any information about
GM common stock holders, what about them?
it went to zero....


I had one or two shares for informational purposes and NOT
investment.... education costs money so I got one or two shares and
held it. It's gone.

I watched it become 100% worthless while the Unions received ownership
and stock in the NEW GM corporation and they have the value I once had
and a billion times that. All thanks to Obama. It sucks even when it's
only $10.00 stolen from you by the government. Why trust police or
politicians when they are going to your wallet and take your cash.


They are all corrupt government. If Obama is corrupt then all his Law
enforcement agencies are corrupt.
Barry Bruyea
2012-09-25 22:55:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by emoneyjoe
Post by Bob
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Post by Wayne
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
And GM bond holders (aka, probably in the average Joe's IRA or 401K) got
screwed big time, by Obama's unilateral rewriting of contract law.
... and Obama saved the UAW, whose contracts would have had to be
rewritten if GM had gone through the normal bankruptcy proceedings.
When the UAW demands too much and bankrupts the company, maybe the UAW
should suffer the consequence of their actions.
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Bottom line: It was not a bailout of GM, but a bailout of Obama's
allies, the UAW.
Yes and everyone lost except the UAW, who were the very problem to begin
with.
GM management signed every one of those contracts.
I have never seen any information about
GM common stock holders, what about them?
Home Depot supplied the paste to apply the wallpaper.
Wayne
2012-09-25 16:47:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Post by Wayne
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
And GM bond holders (aka, probably in the average Joe's IRA or 401K) got
screwed big time, by Obama's unilateral rewriting of contract law.
... and Obama saved the UAW, whose contracts would have had to be
rewritten if GM had gone through the normal bankruptcy proceedings.
When the UAW demands too much and bankrupts the company, maybe the UAW
should suffer the consequence of their actions.
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Bottom line: It was not a bailout of GM, but a bailout of Obama's
allies, the UAW.
Yes and everyone lost except the UAW, who were the very problem to begin
with.
# GM management signed every one of those contracts.

GM management was coerced into signing every one of those contracts. The
can got kicked far enough down the road that it killed the company, and it
should have been allowed to die.
Bob
2012-09-25 18:16:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wayne
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Post by Wayne
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
And GM bond holders (aka, probably in the average Joe's IRA or 401K) got
screwed big time, by Obama's unilateral rewriting of contract law.
... and Obama saved the UAW, whose contracts would have had to be
rewritten if GM had gone through the normal bankruptcy proceedings.
When the UAW demands too much and bankrupts the company, maybe the UAW
should suffer the consequence of their actions.
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Bottom line: It was not a bailout of GM, but a bailout of Obama's
allies, the UAW.
Yes and everyone lost except the UAW, who were the very problem to begin
with.
# GM management signed every one of those contracts.
GM management was coerced into signing every one of those contracts.
The can got kicked far enough down the road that it killed the company,
and it should have been allowed to die.
If GM management is susceptible to coercion to the detriment of the
company, they deserve to go out of business.
Wayne
2012-09-25 21:53:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wayne
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Post by Wayne
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
And GM bond holders (aka, probably in the average Joe's IRA or 401K) got
screwed big time, by Obama's unilateral rewriting of contract law.
... and Obama saved the UAW, whose contracts would have had to be
rewritten if GM had gone through the normal bankruptcy proceedings.
When the UAW demands too much and bankrupts the company, maybe the UAW
should suffer the consequence of their actions.
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Bottom line: It was not a bailout of GM, but a bailout of Obama's
allies, the UAW.
Yes and everyone lost except the UAW, who were the very problem to begin
with.
# GM management signed every one of those contracts.
GM management was coerced into signing every one of those contracts.
The can got kicked far enough down the road that it killed the company,
and it should have been allowed to die.
# If GM management is susceptible to coercion to the detriment of the
# company, they deserve to go out of business.

But the Dictator in Chief wouldn't let them go out of business.
Sid9
2012-09-25 22:08:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wayne
Post by Wayne
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Post by Wayne
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
And GM bond holders (aka, probably in the average Joe's IRA or 401K) got
screwed big time, by Obama's unilateral rewriting of contract law.
... and Obama saved the UAW, whose contracts would have had to be
rewritten if GM had gone through the normal bankruptcy proceedings.
When the UAW demands too much and bankrupts the company, maybe the UAW
should suffer the consequence of their actions.
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Bottom line: It was not a bailout of GM, but a bailout of Obama's
allies, the UAW.
Yes and everyone lost except the UAW, who were the very problem to begin
with.
# GM management signed every one of those contracts.
GM management was coerced into signing every one of those contracts.
The can got kicked far enough down the road that it killed the company,
and it should have been allowed to die.
# If GM management is susceptible to coercion to the detriment of the
# company, they deserve to go out of business.
But the Dictator in Chief wouldn't let them go out of business.
GM had incompetent management. They let Toyota take away their entire market
while they continued to make their rust buckets.
Labor doesn't do that. Management does!
Wayne
2012-09-26 00:55:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wayne
Post by Wayne
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Post by Wayne
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
And GM bond holders (aka, probably in the average Joe's IRA or 401K) got
screwed big time, by Obama's unilateral rewriting of contract law.
... and Obama saved the UAW, whose contracts would have had to be
rewritten if GM had gone through the normal bankruptcy proceedings.
When the UAW demands too much and bankrupts the company, maybe the UAW
should suffer the consequence of their actions.
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Bottom line: It was not a bailout of GM, but a bailout of Obama's
allies, the UAW.
Yes and everyone lost except the UAW, who were the very problem to begin
with.
# GM management signed every one of those contracts.
GM management was coerced into signing every one of those contracts.
The can got kicked far enough down the road that it killed the company,
and it should have been allowed to die.
# If GM management is susceptible to coercion to the detriment of the
# company, they deserve to go out of business.
But the Dictator in Chief wouldn't let them go out of business.
# GM had incompetent management. They let Toyota take away their entire
market
# while they continued to make their rust buckets.
# Labor doesn't do that. Management does!

Assuming as you do, that everybody except the UAW screwed up the building of
GM products.....it is still possible for a company at the tipping point to
get pushed over the cliff by the UAW.

The reward for incompetence is FAILURE...not selective support by the
government.
Sid9
2012-09-26 00:58:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wayne
Post by Wayne
Post by Wayne
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Post by Wayne
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
And GM bond holders (aka, probably in the average Joe's IRA or 401K) got
screwed big time, by Obama's unilateral rewriting of contract law.
... and Obama saved the UAW, whose contracts would have had to be
rewritten if GM had gone through the normal bankruptcy proceedings.
When the UAW demands too much and bankrupts the company, maybe the UAW
should suffer the consequence of their actions.
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Bottom line: It was not a bailout of GM, but a bailout of Obama's
allies, the UAW.
Yes and everyone lost except the UAW, who were the very problem to begin
with.
# GM management signed every one of those contracts.
GM management was coerced into signing every one of those contracts.
The can got kicked far enough down the road that it killed the company,
and it should have been allowed to die.
# If GM management is susceptible to coercion to the detriment of the
# company, they deserve to go out of business.
But the Dictator in Chief wouldn't let them go out of business.
# GM had incompetent management. They let Toyota take away their entire
market
# while they continued to make their rust buckets.
# Labor doesn't do that. Management does!
Assuming as you do, that everybody except the UAW screwed up the building
of GM products.....it is still possible for a company at the tipping point
to get pushed over the cliff by the UAW.
The reward for incompetence is FAILURE...not selective support by the
government.
GM executives also FAILED in their dealings with the UAW....Did I leave that
out?
They caved at every turn.
They failed to enforce management's prerogatives.
Barry Bruyea
2012-09-26 01:05:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sid9
Post by Wayne
Post by Wayne
Post by Wayne
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Post by Wayne
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
And GM bond holders (aka, probably in the average Joe's IRA or 401K) got
screwed big time, by Obama's unilateral rewriting of contract law.
... and Obama saved the UAW, whose contracts would have had to be
rewritten if GM had gone through the normal bankruptcy proceedings.
When the UAW demands too much and bankrupts the company, maybe the UAW
should suffer the consequence of their actions.
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Bottom line: It was not a bailout of GM, but a bailout of Obama's
allies, the UAW.
Yes and everyone lost except the UAW, who were the very problem to begin
with.
# GM management signed every one of those contracts.
GM management was coerced into signing every one of those contracts.
The can got kicked far enough down the road that it killed the company,
and it should have been allowed to die.
# If GM management is susceptible to coercion to the detriment of the
# company, they deserve to go out of business.
But the Dictator in Chief wouldn't let them go out of business.
# GM had incompetent management. They let Toyota take away their entire
market
# while they continued to make their rust buckets.
# Labor doesn't do that. Management does!
Assuming as you do, that everybody except the UAW screwed up the building
of GM products.....it is still possible for a company at the tipping point
to get pushed over the cliff by the UAW.
The reward for incompetence is FAILURE...not selective support by the
government.
GM executives also FAILED in their dealings with the UAW....Did I leave that
out?
They caved at every turn.
They failed to enforce management's prerogatives.
Their equivalent today are the big, commercial T.V. networks who are
doomed but haven't the sense to realize that their day is done.
Sid9
2012-09-26 01:11:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Barry Bruyea
Post by Sid9
Post by Wayne
Post by Wayne
Post by Wayne
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Post by Wayne
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
And GM bond holders (aka, probably in the average Joe's IRA or
401K)
got
screwed big time, by Obama's unilateral rewriting of contract law.
... and Obama saved the UAW, whose contracts would have had to be
rewritten if GM had gone through the normal bankruptcy proceedings.
When the UAW demands too much and bankrupts the company, maybe the UAW
should suffer the consequence of their actions.
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Bottom line: It was not a bailout of GM, but a bailout of Obama's
allies, the UAW.
Yes and everyone lost except the UAW, who were the very problem to begin
with.
# GM management signed every one of those contracts.
GM management was coerced into signing every one of those contracts.
The can got kicked far enough down the road that it killed the company,
and it should have been allowed to die.
# If GM management is susceptible to coercion to the detriment of the
# company, they deserve to go out of business.
But the Dictator in Chief wouldn't let them go out of business.
# GM had incompetent management. They let Toyota take away their entire
market
# while they continued to make their rust buckets.
# Labor doesn't do that. Management does!
Assuming as you do, that everybody except the UAW screwed up the building
of GM products.....it is still possible for a company at the tipping point
to get pushed over the cliff by the UAW.
The reward for incompetence is FAILURE...not selective support by the
government.
GM executives also FAILED in their dealings with the UAW....Did I leave that
out?
They caved at every turn.
They failed to enforce management's prerogatives.
Their equivalent today are the big, commercial T.V. networks who are
doomed but haven't the sense to realize that their day is done.
Not a good parallel.
But networks as we know them are at end of life.
Barry Bruyea
2012-09-26 10:15:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sid9
Post by Barry Bruyea
Post by Sid9
Post by Wayne
Post by Wayne
Post by Wayne
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Post by Wayne
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
And GM bond holders (aka, probably in the average Joe's IRA or
401K)
got
screwed big time, by Obama's unilateral rewriting of contract law.
... and Obama saved the UAW, whose contracts would have had to be
rewritten if GM had gone through the normal bankruptcy proceedings.
When the UAW demands too much and bankrupts the company, maybe the UAW
should suffer the consequence of their actions.
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Bottom line: It was not a bailout of GM, but a bailout of Obama's
allies, the UAW.
Yes and everyone lost except the UAW, who were the very problem to begin
with.
# GM management signed every one of those contracts.
GM management was coerced into signing every one of those contracts.
The can got kicked far enough down the road that it killed the company,
and it should have been allowed to die.
# If GM management is susceptible to coercion to the detriment of the
# company, they deserve to go out of business.
But the Dictator in Chief wouldn't let them go out of business.
# GM had incompetent management. They let Toyota take away their entire
market
# while they continued to make their rust buckets.
# Labor doesn't do that. Management does!
Assuming as you do, that everybody except the UAW screwed up the building
of GM products.....it is still possible for a company at the tipping point
to get pushed over the cliff by the UAW.
The reward for incompetence is FAILURE...not selective support by the
government.
GM executives also FAILED in their dealings with the UAW....Did I leave that
out?
They caved at every turn.
They failed to enforce management's prerogatives.
Their equivalent today are the big, commercial T.V. networks who are
doomed but haven't the sense to realize that their day is done.
Not a good parallel.
But networks as we know them are at end of life.
It's an excellent example of self delusion, which the automotive execs
practiced with a continuity that was scary.
Nickname unavailable
2012-09-28 00:24:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sid9
Post by Barry Bruyea
Post by Sid9
Post by Wayne
Post by Wayne
Post by Wayne
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Post by Wayne
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
And GM bond holders (aka, probably in the average Joe's IRA or
401K)
got
screwed big time, by Obama's unilateral rewriting of contract law.
... and Obama saved the UAW, whose contracts would have had to be
rewritten if GM had gone through the normal bankruptcy proceedings.
When the UAW demands too much and bankrupts the company, maybe the UAW
should suffer the consequence of their actions.
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Bottom line: It was not a bailout of GM, but a bailout of Obama's
allies, the UAW.
Yes and everyone lost except the UAW, who were the very problem to begin
with.
# GM management signed every one of those contracts.
GM management was coerced into signing every one of those contracts.
The can got kicked far enough down the road that it killed the company,
and it should have been allowed to die.
# If GM management is susceptible to coercion to the detriment of the
# company, they deserve to go out of business.
But the Dictator in Chief wouldn't let them go out of business.
# GM had incompetent management. They let Toyota take away their entire
market
# while they continued to make their rust buckets.
# Labor doesn't do that. Management does!
Assuming as you do, that everybody except the UAW screwed up the building
of GM products.....it is still possible for a company at the tipping point
to get pushed over the cliff by the UAW.
The reward for incompetence is FAILURE...not selective support by the
government.
GM executives also FAILED in their dealings with the UAW....Did I leave that
out?
They caved at every turn.
They failed to enforce management's prerogatives.
Their equivalent today are the big, commercial T.V. networks who are
doomed but haven't the sense to realize that their day is done.
Not a good parallel.
But networks as we know them are at end of life.
long live digital t.v.
Wayne
2012-09-26 01:33:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wayne
Post by Wayne
Post by Wayne
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Post by Wayne
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
And GM bond holders (aka, probably in the average Joe's IRA or 401K) got
screwed big time, by Obama's unilateral rewriting of contract law.
... and Obama saved the UAW, whose contracts would have had to be
rewritten if GM had gone through the normal bankruptcy proceedings.
When the UAW demands too much and bankrupts the company, maybe the UAW
should suffer the consequence of their actions.
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Bottom line: It was not a bailout of GM, but a bailout of Obama's
allies, the UAW.
Yes and everyone lost except the UAW, who were the very problem to begin
with.
# GM management signed every one of those contracts.
GM management was coerced into signing every one of those contracts.
The can got kicked far enough down the road that it killed the company,
and it should have been allowed to die.
# If GM management is susceptible to coercion to the detriment of the
# company, they deserve to go out of business.
But the Dictator in Chief wouldn't let them go out of business.
# GM had incompetent management. They let Toyota take away their entire
market
# while they continued to make their rust buckets.
# Labor doesn't do that. Management does!
Assuming as you do, that everybody except the UAW screwed up the building
of GM products.....it is still possible for a company at the tipping point
to get pushed over the cliff by the UAW.
The reward for incompetence is FAILURE...not selective support by the
government.
# GM executives also FAILED in their dealings with the UAW....Did I leave
that
# out?
# They caved at every turn.
# They failed to enforce management's prerogatives.

So, the proper solution is:
1. Let the company self destruct and go through bankruptcy?
or
2. Screw all the bondholders, stock holders, the American people and
increase the national debt to appease the UAW?
Sid9
2012-09-26 02:08:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wayne
Post by Wayne
Post by Wayne
Post by Wayne
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Post by Wayne
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
And GM bond holders (aka, probably in the average Joe's IRA or 401K) got
screwed big time, by Obama's unilateral rewriting of contract law.
... and Obama saved the UAW, whose contracts would have had to be
rewritten if GM had gone through the normal bankruptcy proceedings.
When the UAW demands too much and bankrupts the company, maybe the UAW
should suffer the consequence of their actions.
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Bottom line: It was not a bailout of GM, but a bailout of Obama's
allies, the UAW.
Yes and everyone lost except the UAW, who were the very problem to begin
with.
# GM management signed every one of those contracts.
GM management was coerced into signing every one of those contracts.
The can got kicked far enough down the road that it killed the company,
and it should have been allowed to die.
# If GM management is susceptible to coercion to the detriment of the
# company, they deserve to go out of business.
But the Dictator in Chief wouldn't let them go out of business.
# GM had incompetent management. They let Toyota take away their entire
market
# while they continued to make their rust buckets.
# Labor doesn't do that. Management does!
Assuming as you do, that everybody except the UAW screwed up the building
of GM products.....it is still possible for a company at the tipping
point to get pushed over the cliff by the UAW.
The reward for incompetence is FAILURE...not selective support by the
government.
# GM executives also FAILED in their dealings with the UAW....Did I leave
that
# out?
# They caved at every turn.
# They failed to enforce management's prerogatives.
1. Let the company self destruct and go through bankruptcy?
or
2. Screw all the bondholders, stock holders, the American people and
increase the national debt to appease the UAW?
(1) Yes. Reorg under protection of the bankruptcy laws
They should have fired the executives.
The company HAD to be bailed out.
GM is essential to national security
(2) Correct. They allowed it to happen.
It wasn't done to "appease" the UAW.
Wayne
2012-09-26 16:02:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wayne
Post by Wayne
Post by Wayne
Post by Wayne
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Post by Wayne
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
And GM bond holders (aka, probably in the average Joe's IRA or 401K) got
screwed big time, by Obama's unilateral rewriting of contract law.
... and Obama saved the UAW, whose contracts would have had to be
rewritten if GM had gone through the normal bankruptcy proceedings.
When the UAW demands too much and bankrupts the company, maybe the UAW
should suffer the consequence of their actions.
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Bottom line: It was not a bailout of GM, but a bailout of Obama's
allies, the UAW.
Yes and everyone lost except the UAW, who were the very problem to begin
with.
# GM management signed every one of those contracts.
GM management was coerced into signing every one of those contracts.
The can got kicked far enough down the road that it killed the company,
and it should have been allowed to die.
# If GM management is susceptible to coercion to the detriment of the
# company, they deserve to go out of business.
But the Dictator in Chief wouldn't let them go out of business.
# GM had incompetent management. They let Toyota take away their entire
market
# while they continued to make their rust buckets.
# Labor doesn't do that. Management does!
Assuming as you do, that everybody except the UAW screwed up the building
of GM products.....it is still possible for a company at the tipping
point to get pushed over the cliff by the UAW.
The reward for incompetence is FAILURE...not selective support by the
government.
# GM executives also FAILED in their dealings with the UAW....Did I leave
that
# out?
# They caved at every turn.
# They failed to enforce management's prerogatives.
1. Let the company self destruct and go through bankruptcy?
or
2. Screw all the bondholders, stock holders, the American people and
increase the national debt to appease the UAW?
# (1) Yes. Reorg under protection of the bankruptcy laws
# They should have fired the executives.
# The company HAD to be bailed out.
# GM is essential to national security

Bullshit. It was NOT reorganized under bankruptcy laws. The company did
NOT have to be bailed out. GM is NOT essential to national security.

# (2) Correct. They allowed it to happen.
# It wasn't done to "appease" the UAW.

It was done to appease the UAW.
Sid9
2012-09-26 17:53:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wayne
Post by Wayne
Post by Wayne
Post by Wayne
Post by Wayne
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Post by Wayne
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
And GM bond holders (aka, probably in the average Joe's IRA or
401K)
got
screwed big time, by Obama's unilateral rewriting of contract law.
... and Obama saved the UAW, whose contracts would have had to be
rewritten if GM had gone through the normal bankruptcy proceedings.
When the UAW demands too much and bankrupts the company, maybe the UAW
should suffer the consequence of their actions.
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Bottom line: It was not a bailout of GM, but a bailout of Obama's
allies, the UAW.
Yes and everyone lost except the UAW, who were the very problem to begin
with.
# GM management signed every one of those contracts.
GM management was coerced into signing every one of those contracts.
The can got kicked far enough down the road that it killed the company,
and it should have been allowed to die.
# If GM management is susceptible to coercion to the detriment of the
# company, they deserve to go out of business.
But the Dictator in Chief wouldn't let them go out of business.
# GM had incompetent management. They let Toyota take away their entire
market
# while they continued to make their rust buckets.
# Labor doesn't do that. Management does!
Assuming as you do, that everybody except the UAW screwed up the
building of GM products.....it is still possible for a company at the
tipping point to get pushed over the cliff by the UAW.
The reward for incompetence is FAILURE...not selective support by the
government.
# GM executives also FAILED in their dealings with the UAW....Did I leave
that
# out?
# They caved at every turn.
# They failed to enforce management's prerogatives.
1. Let the company self destruct and go through bankruptcy?
or
2. Screw all the bondholders, stock holders, the American people and
increase the national debt to appease the UAW?
# (1) Yes. Reorg under protection of the bankruptcy laws
# They should have fired the executives.
# The company HAD to be bailed out.
# GM is essential to national security
Bullshit. It was NOT reorganized under bankruptcy laws. The company did
NOT have to be bailed out. GM is NOT essential to national security.
# (2) Correct. They allowed it to happen.
# It wasn't done to "appease" the UAW.
It was done to appease the UAW.
What ever.
Nickname unavailable
2012-09-28 00:32:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sid9
Post by Wayne
Post by Wayne
Post by Wayne
Post by Wayne
Post by Wayne
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Post by Wayne
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
And GM bond holders (aka, probably in the average Joe's IRA or
401K)
got
screwed big time, by Obama's unilateral rewriting of contract law.
... and Obama saved the UAW, whose contracts would have had to be
rewritten if GM had gone through the normal bankruptcy proceedings.
When the UAW demands too much and bankrupts the company, maybe the UAW
should suffer the consequence of their actions.
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Bottom line: It was not a bailout of GM, but a bailout of Obama's
allies, the UAW.
Yes and everyone lost except the UAW, who were the very problem to begin
with.
# GM management signed every one of those contracts.
GM management was coerced into signing every one of those contracts.
The can got kicked far enough down the road that it killed the company,
and it should have been allowed to die.
# If GM management is susceptible to coercion to the detriment of the
# company, they deserve to go out of business.
But the Dictator in Chief wouldn't let them go out of business.
# GM had incompetent management. They let Toyota take away their entire
market
# while they continued to make their rust buckets.
# Labor doesn't do that. Management does!
Assuming as you do, that everybody except the UAW screwed up the
building of GM products.....it is still possible for a company at the
tipping point to get pushed over the cliff by the UAW.
The reward for incompetence is FAILURE...not selective support by the
government.
# GM executives also FAILED in their dealings with the UAW....Did I leave
that
# out?
# They caved at every turn.
# They failed to enforce management's prerogatives.
1. Let the company self destruct and go through bankruptcy?
or
2. Screw all the bondholders, stock holders, the American people and
increase the national debt to appease the UAW?
# (1) Yes. Reorg under protection of the bankruptcy laws
# They should have fired the executives.
# The company HAD to be bailed out.
# GM is essential to national security
Bullshit.  It was NOT reorganized under bankruptcy laws.  The company did
NOT have to be bailed out.  GM is NOT essential to national security.
# (2) Correct. They allowed it to happen.
# It wasn't done to "appease" the UAW.
It was done to appease the UAW.
What ever.
sid, the proper response to him should be this,

you sir are un-american.
Nickname unavailable
2012-09-28 00:31:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wayne
Post by Wayne
Post by Wayne
Post by Wayne
Post by Wayne
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Post by Wayne
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
And GM bond holders (aka, probably in the average Joe's IRA or 401K) got
screwed big time, by Obama's unilateral rewriting of contract law.
... and Obama saved the UAW, whose contracts would have had to be
rewritten if GM had gone through the normal bankruptcy proceedings.
When the UAW demands too much and bankrupts the company, maybe the UAW
should suffer the consequence of their actions.
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Bottom line: It was not a bailout of GM, but a bailout of Obama's
allies, the UAW.
Yes and everyone lost except the UAW, who were the very problem to begin
with.
# GM management signed every one of those contracts.
GM management was coerced into signing every one of those contracts.
The can got kicked far enough down the road that it killed the company,
and it should have been allowed to die.
# If GM management is susceptible to coercion to the detriment of the
# company, they deserve to go out of business.
But the Dictator in Chief wouldn't let them go out of business.
# GM had incompetent management. They let Toyota take away their entire
market
# while they continued to make their rust buckets.
# Labor doesn't do that. Management does!
Assuming as you do, that everybody except the UAW screwed up the building
of GM products.....it is still possible for a company at the tipping
point to get pushed over the cliff by the UAW.
The reward for incompetence is FAILURE...not selective support by the
government.
# GM executives also FAILED in their dealings with the UAW....Did I leave
that
# out?
# They caved at every turn.
# They failed to enforce management's prerogatives.
1. Let the company self destruct and go through bankruptcy?
or
2. Screw all the bondholders, stock holders, the American people and
increase the national debt to appease the UAW?
# (1) Yes. Reorg under protection of the bankruptcy laws
# They should have fired the executives.
# The company HAD to be bailed out.
# GM is essential to national security
Bullshit.  It was NOT reorganized under bankruptcy laws.  The company did
NOT have to be bailed out.  GM is NOT essential to national security.
# (2) Correct. They allowed it to happen.
# It wasn't done to "appease" the UAW.
It was done to appease the UAW.
you of course can back that up with credible, verifiable cites and
sources correct:)))))) and please do not insult our intelligence with
the newest "CONSERVATIVE" crap lies like this,

"THE CONSERVATIVES" will never learn:they can lie all day long to the
al bundy/archie bunker/homer simpson:but today their lies are debunked
as fast as they come out:a government program that will provide low-
income people with a free or low cost cell phone, It was started in
2008 under George W. Bush.




http://thinkprogress.org/election/2012/09/27/924011/the-truth-about-the-obama-phone/?mobile=nc

The Truth About The Obama Phone
By Judd Legum on Sep 27, 2012 at 4:43 pm
On Thursday, the Drudge Report splashed a video of an undentified
woman who claims to have recieved a free “Obama Phone.”

The video has captured the attention of the right online, who see it
as proof that Obama supporters are dependent on government. On his
show today, Rush Limbaugh weighed in:
So these are the people that don’t like Romney because of what he said
about 47%? No, these are the 47%!… She knows. She knows how to get
this free Obama phone. She knows everything about it. She may not know
who George Washington is or Abraham Lincoln, but she knows how to get
an Obama phone.
Thousands of conservatives are on Twitter, telling jokes about the
#ObamaPhone.
There is one problem with the Obama Phone: It doesn’t exist.
Since 2009, there has been an urban myth that Obama created a program
to provide free phones to low-income Americans at taxpayer expense.
There is, in fact, a government program that will provide low-income
people with a free or low cost cell phone. It was started in 2008
under George W. Bush.
The idea of providing low-income individuals with subsidized phone
service was originated in the Reagan administration following the
break-up of AT&T in 1984. (It was expanded and formalized by the
Telecommunications Act of 1996.) The program is paid for by
telecommunications companies through an independent non-profit, not
through tax revenue.



we want the truth, not lies.
BeamMeUpScotty
2012-09-26 17:54:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wayne
Post by Wayne
Post by Wayne
Post by Wayne
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Post by Wayne
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
And GM bond holders (aka, probably in the average Joe's IRA or 401K) got
screwed big time, by Obama's unilateral rewriting of contract law.
... and Obama saved the UAW, whose contracts would have had to be
rewritten if GM had gone through the normal bankruptcy proceedings.
When the UAW demands too much and bankrupts the company, maybe the UAW
should suffer the consequence of their actions.
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Bottom line: It was not a bailout of GM, but a bailout of Obama's
allies, the UAW.
Yes and everyone lost except the UAW, who were the very problem to begin
with.
# GM management signed every one of those contracts.
GM management was coerced into signing every one of those contracts.
The can got kicked far enough down the road that it killed the company,
and it should have been allowed to die.
# If GM management is susceptible to coercion to the detriment of the
# company, they deserve to go out of business.
But the Dictator in Chief wouldn't let them go out of business.
# GM had incompetent management. They let Toyota take away their
entire market
# while they continued to make their rust buckets.
# Labor doesn't do that. Management does!
Assuming as you do, that everybody except the UAW screwed up the
building of GM products.....it is still possible for a company at the
tipping point to get pushed over the cliff by the UAW.
The reward for incompetence is FAILURE...not selective support by the
government.
# GM executives also FAILED in their dealings with the UAW....Did I
leave that
# out?
# They caved at every turn.
# They failed to enforce management's prerogatives.
1. Let the company self destruct and go through bankruptcy?
or
2. Screw all the bondholders, stock holders, the American people and
increase the national debt to appease the UAW?
NOW you re onto it.... bankruptcy was, what has been "fair" and has
been the "Equal Justice" solution for 200 years, but suddenly Obama will
fix all that and make it all better for us.


He used "Social Justice" and made it MORE "fair" in his view and the
UAW had been damaged and needed to own half of GM so that the workers
could be equal to the other interests so Obama decided he would with the
stroke of a pen, redistribute this wealth and MAKE/FORCE everyone to be
equal.
--
*Rumination*
#66 - To a hammer... everything looks like a nail. And to the
government, every facility looks like a prison to limit your freedoms.
Nickname unavailable
2012-09-28 00:25:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wayne
Post by Wayne
Post by Wayne
Post by Wayne
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Post by Wayne
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
And GM bond holders (aka, probably in the average Joe's IRA or 401K) got
screwed big time, by Obama's unilateral rewriting of contract law.
... and Obama saved the UAW, whose contracts would have had to be
rewritten if GM had gone through the normal bankruptcy proceedings.
When the UAW demands too much and bankrupts the company, maybe the UAW
should suffer the consequence of their actions.
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Bottom line: It was not a bailout of GM, but a bailout of Obama's
allies, the UAW.
Yes and everyone lost except the UAW, who were the very problem to begin
with.
# GM management signed every one of those contracts.
GM management was coerced into signing every one of those contracts.
The can got kicked far enough down the road that it killed the company,
and it should have been allowed to die.
# If GM management is susceptible to coercion to the detriment of the
# company, they deserve to go out of business.
But the Dictator in Chief wouldn't let them go out of business.
# GM had incompetent management. They let Toyota take away their entire
market
# while they continued to make their rust buckets.
# Labor doesn't do that. Management does!
Assuming as you do, that everybody except the UAW screwed up the building
of GM products.....it is still possible for a company at the tipping point
to get pushed over the cliff by the UAW.
The reward for incompetence is FAILURE...not selective support by the
government.
# GM executives also FAILED in their dealings with the UAW....Did I leave
that
# out?
# They caved at every turn.
# They failed to enforce management's prerogatives.
1. Let the company self destruct and go through bankruptcy?
or
2. Screw all the bondholders, stock holders, the American people and
increase the national debt to appease the UAW?
that is a lie. companies go into bankruptcy all of the time. its
normal, even reagan helped out detroit, he knew that the founders
wanted production, and were willing to subsidize it.
Nickname unavailable
2012-09-28 00:22:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sid9
Post by Wayne
Post by Wayne
Post by Wayne
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Post by Wayne
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
And GM bond holders (aka, probably in the average Joe's IRA or 401K) got
screwed big time, by Obama's unilateral rewriting of contract law.
... and Obama saved the UAW, whose contracts would have had to be
rewritten if GM had gone through the normal bankruptcy proceedings.
When the UAW demands too much and bankrupts the company, maybe the UAW
should suffer the consequence of their actions.
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Bottom line: It was not a bailout of GM, but a bailout of Obama's
allies, the UAW.
Yes and everyone lost except the UAW, who were the very problem to begin
with.
# GM management signed every one of those contracts.
GM management was coerced into signing every one of those contracts.
The can got kicked far enough down the road that it killed the company,
and it should have been allowed to die.
# If GM management is susceptible to coercion to the detriment of the
# company, they deserve to go out of business.
But the Dictator in Chief wouldn't let them go out of business.
# GM had incompetent management. They let Toyota take away their entire
market
# while they continued to make their rust buckets.
# Labor doesn't do that. Management does!
Assuming as you do, that everybody except the UAW screwed up the building
of GM products.....it is still possible for a company at the tipping point
to get pushed over the cliff by the UAW.
The reward for incompetence is FAILURE...not selective support by the
government.
GM executives also FAILED in their dealings with the UAW....Did I leave that
out?
They caved at every turn.
They failed to enforce management's prerogatives.
sid, they did not fail in their dealings with the u.a.w. the ford
contract proves that. what g.m. and chrysler failed in, was chrysler
was run by a hedge fund that ran the company into the ground, and g.m.
got involved in the great "CONSERVATIVE" economic bubbles of the
2000's. g.m. got heavily wrapped up in housing.
Nickname unavailable
2012-09-28 00:18:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wayne
Post by Wayne
Post by Wayne
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Post by Wayne
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
And GM bond holders (aka, probably in the average Joe's IRA or 401K) got
screwed big time, by Obama's unilateral rewriting of contract law.
... and Obama saved the UAW, whose contracts would have had to be
rewritten if GM had gone through the normal bankruptcy proceedings.
When the UAW demands too much and bankrupts the company, maybe the UAW
should suffer the consequence of their actions.
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Bottom line: It was not a bailout of GM, but a bailout of Obama's
allies, the UAW.
Yes and everyone lost except the UAW, who were the very problem to begin
with.
# GM management signed every one of those contracts.
GM management was coerced into signing every one of those contracts.
The can got kicked far enough down the road that it killed the company,
and it should have been allowed to die.
# If GM management is susceptible to coercion to the detriment of the
# company, they deserve to go out of business.
But the Dictator in Chief wouldn't let them go out of business.
# GM had incompetent management. They let Toyota take away their entire
market
# while they continued to make their rust buckets.
# Labor doesn't do that. Management does!
Assuming as you do, that everybody except the UAW screwed up the building of
GM products.....it is still possible for a company at the tipping point to
get pushed over the cliff by the UAW.
The reward for incompetence is FAILURE...not selective support by the
government.
god "CONSERVATIVES" hate the american worker, they hate the fact that
some americans due to free association, can make a decent living. but
"THE CONSERVATIVES" love their marxist buddies that make up the board
rooms of the western corporations.
Wayne
2012-09-28 00:37:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wayne
Post by Wayne
Post by Wayne
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Post by Wayne
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
And GM bond holders (aka, probably in the average Joe's IRA or 401K) got
screwed big time, by Obama's unilateral rewriting of contract law.
... and Obama saved the UAW, whose contracts would have had to be
rewritten if GM had gone through the normal bankruptcy proceedings.
When the UAW demands too much and bankrupts the company, maybe the UAW
should suffer the consequence of their actions.
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Bottom line: It was not a bailout of GM, but a bailout of Obama's
allies, the UAW.
Yes and everyone lost except the UAW, who were the very problem to begin
with.
# GM management signed every one of those contracts.
GM management was coerced into signing every one of those contracts.
The can got kicked far enough down the road that it killed the company,
and it should have been allowed to die.
# If GM management is susceptible to coercion to the detriment of the
# company, they deserve to go out of business.
But the Dictator in Chief wouldn't let them go out of business.
# GM had incompetent management. They let Toyota take away their entire
market
# while they continued to make their rust buckets.
# Labor doesn't do that. Management does!
Assuming as you do, that everybody except the UAW screwed up the building of
GM products.....it is still possible for a company at the tipping point to
get pushed over the cliff by the UAW.
The reward for incompetence is FAILURE...not selective support by the
government.
# god "CONSERVATIVES" hate the american worker, they hate the fact that
# some americans due to free association, can make a decent living. but
# "THE CONSERVATIVES" love their marxist buddies that make up the board
# rooms of the western corporations.

The issue with UAW in this situation is that the UAW wants the fruits of
money that was risked by investors, while divorcing themselves from the
hazards of the risk when things go sour.
Nickname unavailable
2012-09-28 05:25:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wayne
Post by Wayne
Post by Wayne
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Post by Wayne
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
And GM bond holders (aka, probably in the average Joe's IRA or 401K) got
screwed big time, by Obama's unilateral rewriting of contract law.
... and Obama saved the UAW, whose contracts would have had to be
rewritten if GM had gone through the normal bankruptcy proceedings.
When the UAW demands too much and bankrupts the company, maybe the UAW
should suffer the consequence of their actions.
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Bottom line: It was not a bailout of GM, but a bailout of Obama's
allies, the UAW.
Yes and everyone lost except the UAW, who were the very problem to begin
with.
# GM management signed every one of those contracts.
GM management was coerced into signing every one of those contracts.
The can got kicked far enough down the road that it killed the company,
and it should have been allowed to die.
# If GM management is susceptible to coercion to the detriment of the
# company, they deserve to go out of business.
But the Dictator in Chief wouldn't let them go out of business.
# GM had incompetent management. They let Toyota take away their entire
market
# while they continued to make their rust buckets.
# Labor doesn't do that. Management does!
Assuming as you do, that everybody except the UAW screwed up the building of
GM products.....it is still possible for a company at the tipping point to
get pushed over the cliff by the UAW.
The reward for incompetence is FAILURE...not selective support by the
government.
#  god "CONSERVATIVES" hate the american worker, they hate the fact that
# some americans due to free association, can make a decent living. but
# "THE CONSERVATIVES" love their marxist buddies that make up the board
# rooms of the western corporations.
The issue with UAW in this situation is that the UAW wants the fruits of
money that was risked by investors, while divorcing themselves from the
hazards of the risk when things go sour.
liar. try lying away the 1950's, under the u.a.w., american car
companies became the envy of the world. the car companies were ruined
by the free market, the private sector.
BeamMeUpScotty
2012-09-28 14:42:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nickname unavailable
Post by Wayne
Post by Wayne
Post by Wayne
Post by Wayne
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Post by Wayne
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
And GM bond holders (aka, probably in the average Joe's IRA or 401K) got
screwed big time, by Obama's unilateral rewriting of contract law.
... and Obama saved the UAW, whose contracts would have had to be
rewritten if GM had gone through the normal bankruptcy proceedings.
When the UAW demands too much and bankrupts the company, maybe the UAW
should suffer the consequence of their actions.
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Bottom line: It was not a bailout of GM, but a bailout of Obama's
allies, the UAW.
Yes and everyone lost except the UAW, who were the very problem to begin
with.
# GM management signed every one of those contracts.
GM management was coerced into signing every one of those contracts.
The can got kicked far enough down the road that it killed the company,
and it should have been allowed to die.
# If GM management is susceptible to coercion to the detriment of the
# company, they deserve to go out of business.
But the Dictator in Chief wouldn't let them go out of business.
# GM had incompetent management. They let Toyota take away their entire
market
# while they continued to make their rust buckets.
# Labor doesn't do that. Management does!
Assuming as you do, that everybody except the UAW screwed up the building of
GM products.....it is still possible for a company at the tipping point to
get pushed over the cliff by the UAW.
The reward for incompetence is FAILURE...not selective support by the
government.
# god "CONSERVATIVES" hate the american worker, they hate the fact that
# some americans due to free association, can make a decent living. but
# "THE CONSERVATIVES" love their marxist buddies that make up the board
# rooms of the western corporations.
The issue with UAW in this situation is that the UAW wants the fruits of
money that was risked by investors, while divorcing themselves from the
hazards of the risk when things go sour.
liar. try lying away the 1950's, under the u.a.w., american car
companies became the envy of the world. the car companies were ruined
by the free market, the private sector.
A little Liberalism like a little alcohol, can be a good thing but when
either of them take control, they become self destructive.
Nickname unavailable
2012-09-27 19:03:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wayne
Post by Wayne
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Post by Wayne
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
And GM bond holders (aka, probably in the average Joe's IRA or 401K) got
screwed big time, by Obama's unilateral rewriting of contract law.
... and Obama saved the UAW, whose contracts would have had to be
rewritten if GM had gone through the normal bankruptcy proceedings.
When the UAW demands too much and bankrupts the company, maybe the UAW
should suffer the consequence of their actions.
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Bottom line: It was not a bailout of GM, but a bailout of Obama's
allies, the UAW.
Yes and everyone lost except the UAW, who were the very problem to begin
with.
# GM management signed every one of those contracts.
GM management was coerced into signing every one of those contracts.
The can got kicked far enough down the road that it killed the company,
and it should have been allowed to die.
# If GM management is susceptible to coercion to the detriment of the
# company, they deserve to go out of business.
But the Dictator in Chief wouldn't let them go out of business.
the majority of the founders were liberals, who crafted the
constitution of the united states with broad powers to legislate, tax,
regulate, tariff, negate state law, promote and provide for the
general welfare, mandate, to ensure domestic tranquility, and to To
make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into
Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this
Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any
Department or Officer thereof.
Orval Fairbairn
2012-09-28 04:03:20 UTC
Permalink
In article
Post by Nickname unavailable
Post by Wayne
Post by Wayne
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Post by Wayne
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
And GM bond holders (aka, probably in the average Joe's IRA or 401K) got
screwed big time, by Obama's unilateral rewriting of contract law.
... and Obama saved the UAW, whose contracts would have had to be
rewritten if GM had gone through the normal bankruptcy proceedings.
When the UAW demands too much and bankrupts the company, maybe the UAW
should suffer the consequence of their actions.
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Bottom line: It was not a bailout of GM, but a bailout of Obama's
allies, the UAW.
Yes and everyone lost except the UAW, who were the very problem to begin
with.
# GM management signed every one of those contracts.
GM management was coerced into signing every one of those contracts.
The can got kicked far enough down the road that it killed the company,
and it should have been allowed to die.
# If GM management is susceptible to coercion to the detriment of the
# company, they deserve to go out of business.
But the Dictator in Chief wouldn't let them go out of business.
the majority of the founders were liberals, who crafted the
constitution of the united states with broad powers to legislate, tax,
regulate, tariff, negate state law, promote and provide for the
general welfare, mandate, to ensure domestic tranquility, and to To
make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into
Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this
Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any
Department or Officer thereof.
Wrong again! The Founders were libertarians, who distrusted the power of
Government and deliberately designed the new Constitution so that the
power was dispersed equally among Legislative, Executive and Judicial.

They rightly saw that too much concentration of power in any one branch
(or individual) was a formula for despotism and tyranny.
Nickname unavailable
2012-09-28 05:51:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Orval Fairbairn
In article
Post by Wayne
Post by Wayne
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Post by Wayne
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
And GM bond holders (aka, probably in the average Joe's IRA or 401K) got
screwed big time, by Obama's unilateral rewriting of contract law.
... and Obama saved the UAW, whose contracts would have had to be
rewritten if GM had gone through the normal bankruptcy proceedings.
When the UAW demands too much and bankrupts the company, maybe the UAW
should suffer the consequence of their actions.
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Bottom line: It was not a bailout of GM, but a bailout of Obama's
allies, the UAW.
Yes and everyone lost except the UAW, who were the very problem to begin
with.
# GM management signed every one of those contracts.
GM management was coerced into signing every one of those contracts.
The can got kicked far enough down the road that it killed the company,
and it should have been allowed to die.
# If GM management is susceptible to coercion to the detriment of the
# company, they deserve to go out of business.
But the Dictator in Chief wouldn't let them go out of business.
 the majority of the founders were liberals, who crafted the
constitution of the united states with broad powers to legislate, tax,
regulate, tariff, negate state law, promote and provide for the
general welfare, mandate, to ensure domestic tranquility, and to To
make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into
Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this
Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any
Department or Officer thereof.
Wrong again! The Founders were libertarians, who distrusted the power of
Government and deliberately designed the new Constitution so that the
power was dispersed equally among Legislative, Executive and Judicial.
They rightly saw that too much concentration of power in any one branch
(or individual) was a formula for despotism and tyranny.
try to lie away this, of course you will ignore reality.

the majority of the founders were liberals, who crafted the
constitution of the united states with broad powers to legislate, tax,
regulate, tariff, negate state law, promote and provide for the
general welfare, mandate, to ensure domestic tranquility, and to To
make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into
Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this
Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any
Department or Officer thereof.

its the heart and soul of american liberalism, and the majority of
the founders despised conservatism.
Orval Fairbairn
2012-09-28 19:51:59 UTC
Permalink
In article
Post by Nickname unavailable
Post by Orval Fairbairn
In article
Post by Wayne
Post by Wayne
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Post by Wayne
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
And GM bond holders (aka, probably in the average Joe's IRA or
401K)
got
screwed big time, by Obama's unilateral rewriting of contract law.
... and Obama saved the UAW, whose contracts would have had to be
rewritten if GM had gone through the normal bankruptcy proceedings.
When the UAW demands too much and bankrupts the company, maybe the UAW
should suffer the consequence of their actions.
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Bottom line: It was not a bailout of GM, but a bailout of Obama's
allies, the UAW.
Yes and everyone lost except the UAW, who were the very problem to begin
with.
# GM management signed every one of those contracts.
GM management was coerced into signing every one of those contracts.
The can got kicked far enough down the road that it killed the company,
and it should have been allowed to die.
# If GM management is susceptible to coercion to the detriment of the
# company, they deserve to go out of business.
But the Dictator in Chief wouldn't let them go out of business.
 the majority of the founders were liberals, who crafted the
constitution of the united states with broad powers to legislate, tax,
regulate, tariff, negate state law, promote and provide for the
general welfare, mandate, to ensure domestic tranquility, and to To
make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into
Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this
Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any
Department or Officer thereof.
Wrong again! The Founders were libertarians, who distrusted the power of
Government and deliberately designed the new Constitution so that the
power was dispersed equally among Legislative, Executive and Judicial.
They rightly saw that too much concentration of power in any one branch
(or individual) was a formula for despotism and tyranny.
try to lie away this, of course you will ignore reality.
the majority of the founders were liberals, who crafted the
constitution of the united states with broad powers to legislate, tax,
regulate, tariff, negate state law, promote and provide for the
general welfare, mandate, to ensure domestic tranquility, and to To
make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into
Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this
Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any
Department or Officer thereof.
its the heart and soul of american liberalism, and the majority of
the founders despised conservatism.
There has been an inversion. The conservatives of the day were the
statists, while the liberals distrusted too much state power.

The founders were CLASSIC liberals -- with much more in common,
philosophically, than with contemporary "liberals," who now use the term
"Progressive" to hide their oppressive motives.
Nickname unavailable
2012-09-28 20:15:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Orval Fairbairn
In article
Post by Orval Fairbairn
In article
Post by Nickname unavailable
Post by Wayne
Post by Wayne
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Post by Wayne
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
And GM bond holders (aka, probably in the average Joe's IRA or
401K)
got
screwed big time, by Obama's unilateral rewriting of contract law.
... and Obama saved the UAW, whose contracts would have had to be
rewritten if GM had gone through the normal bankruptcy proceedings.
When the UAW demands too much and bankrupts the company, maybe the
UAW
should suffer the consequence of their actions.
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Bottom line: It was not a bailout of GM, but a bailout of Obama's
allies, the UAW.
Yes and everyone lost except the UAW, who were the very problem to
begin
with.
# GM management signed every one of those contracts.
GM management was coerced into signing every one of those contracts.
The can got kicked far enough down the road that it killed the company,
and it should have been allowed to die.
# If GM management is susceptible to coercion to the detriment of the
# company, they deserve to go out of business.
But the Dictator in Chief wouldn't let them go out of business.
the majority of the founders were liberals, who crafted the
constitution of the united states with broad powers to legislate, tax,
regulate, tariff, negate state law, promote and provide for the
general welfare, mandate, to ensure domestic tranquility, and to To
make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into
Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this
Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any
Department or Officer thereof.
Wrong again! The Founders were libertarians, who distrusted the power of
Government and deliberately designed the new Constitution so that the
power was dispersed equally among Legislative, Executive and Judicial.
They rightly saw that too much concentration of power in any one branch
(or individual) was a formula for despotism and tyranny.
 try to lie away this, of course you will ignore reality.
 the majority of the founders were liberals, who crafted the
constitution of the united states with broad powers to legislate, tax,
regulate, tariff, negate state law, promote and provide for the
general welfare, mandate, to ensure domestic tranquility, and to To
make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into
Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this
Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any
Department or Officer thereof.
 its the heart and soul of american liberalism, and the majority of
the founders despised conservatism.
There has been an inversion. The conservatives of the day were the
statists, while the liberals distrusted too much state power.
some might have been as you say, but that is not the reality of it.
the majority of the founders were liberals, who enshrined the heart
and soul of american liberalism into the constitution, and here is the
proof.


THE SUPREMACY CLAUSE
Article. VI.
This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be
made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be
made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme
Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby,
any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary
notwithstanding.


The preemption doctrine derives from the Supremacy Clause of the
Constitution which states that the "Constitution and the laws of the
United States...shall be the supreme law of the land...anything in the
constitutions or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding."
This means of course, that any federal law--even a regulation of a
federal agency--trumps any conflicting state law.


Article V - Amendment Note1 - Note2 - Note3
The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it
necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the
Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States,
shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either
Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as part of this
Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of
the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the
one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress;
Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One
thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first
and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that
no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage
in the Senate.


so any law, treaty or regulation that is deemed constitutional, shall
be the law of the land. its really quite simple. the constitution was
crafted by liberals, who gave the constitution broad powers to
legislate, tax, regulate, negate state law, mandate, tariff, to
promote and provide for the general welfare, to ensure domestic
tranquility, and To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper
for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers
vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or
in any Department or Officer thereof.:)))
Post by Orval Fairbairn
The founders were CLASSIC liberals -- with much more in common,
philosophically, than with contemporary "liberals," who now use the term
"Progressive" to hide their oppressive motives.
that is a flat out lie.




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism_in_the_United_States

The origins of American liberalism lie in the political ideals of The
Enlightenment.[4] The Constitution of the United States of 1787 set up
the first modern republic, with sovereignty in the people (not in a
monarch) and no hereditary ruling aristocracy. However, the
Constitution limited liberty by accepting slavery. The Founding
Fathers recognized the contradiction, and most expected slavery to
wither away. Indeed it was abolished in all the Northern states by
1804, but due to the demand for raw cotton by the Industrial
Revolution, plantation slavery continued to flourish in the Deep
South.
From the time of the Revolution to the present day, America has
extended liberty to ever broader classes of people. The states
abolished restrictions on voting in the early 19th century. The
Constitution was amended in 1865 to abolish slavery, in 1870 to extend
the vote to Black men, in 1920 to extend the vote to women, and in
1971 to lower the voting age to 18. The Jim Crow system of the South
between the 1890s and 1960s relegated blacks to second class
citizenship, until it was overthrown by the Civil Rights Movement and
new federal laws in 1964 and 1965.[5]
Thomas Jefferson believed that America should remain a nation of small
farmers.[6] As America became more and more a nation of businessmen,
liberals began to fear threats to liberty from corruption and
monopolies (called "trusts" at the time).[7][8] Wealth was
concentrated in the hands of a few—especially in the new fast-growing
cities—raised questions whether political democracy could survive the
power of the rich.
The dominance of the Republican Party for most of the era 1860-1932,
the Third Party System, and the Fourth Party System, prevented any
major reversal of the concentration of wealth. During the Progressive
Era of the early 20th century, laws were passed restricting monopolies
(the antitrust movement) and regulating railroad rates.[9][10]
After 1933, modern liberals used the New Deal to provide jobs during
the Great Depression. The Social Security act of 1935 provided
retirement and disability income for Americans unable to work or
unable to find jobs.[11] In the Social Security Act of 1965, this was
extended to provide benefits for Americans unable to work due to
illness.
In the 1960s, liberals fought for the rights of blacks and women, and
for protection of the environment. They split on the issue of the
Vietnam War.
A reaction against modern American liberalism began with Barry
Goldwater, which led to the eventual election of Ronald Reagan in
1980. The intellectual foundations of this conservative resurgence
included the works of free-market economists Milton Friedman and the
Chicago School of Economics, who argued against central economic
planning (with the notable exception of the Federal Reserve),
regulation of business, and Keynesian economics. Deregulation began in
the mid-1970s and had broad support from both liberals and
conservatives. Reagan successfully lowered marginal tax rates, most
notably for those at the top of the income distribution, while his
Social Security reforms raised taxes on the middle and bottom of the
income distribution, leaving their total tax burden unchanged. [12]
Democratic president Bill Clinton (1993–2001) worked with
conservatives, against strong liberal opposition, to end some of the
main welfare programs and to implement NAFTA, linking the economies of
the U.S., Canada, and Mexico. Clinton pushed to extend modern liberal
ideals especially in the areas of health care (where he failed) and
environmental protection (where he had more success).[13]
According to Louis Hartz, liberalism was the only significant
political tradition in the United States. However in the 1970s,
Bernard Bailyn, Gordon Wood and J. G. A. Pocock saw republicanism as
the main political tradition.[clarification needed] In the 1980s, J.
David Green returned to Hartz's thesis, but saw two different types of
liberalism in the tradition, which he called humanist and reform. More
recently, writers have seen a multitude of traditions, including
liberalism, republicanism and protestantism.[14][dubious – discuss]
[clarification needed]


as you can see, jefferson was a liberal, as well as thomas paine.
the declaration of independence, the preamble, and the constitution
are all based on the writings of thomas paine. paine advocated for a
social democracy.
in fact a majority of the founders were liberals, they despised
conservatism, and blamed conservatives for almost losing the
revolution.
Nickname unavailable
2012-09-27 18:54:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob
Post by Wayne
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Post by Wayne
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
And GM bond holders (aka, probably in the average Joe's IRA or 401K) got
screwed big time, by Obama's unilateral rewriting of contract law.
... and Obama saved the UAW, whose contracts would have had to be
rewritten if GM had gone through the normal bankruptcy proceedings.
When the UAW demands too much and bankrupts the company, maybe the UAW
should suffer the consequence of their actions.
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Bottom line: It was not a bailout of GM, but a bailout of Obama's
allies, the UAW.
Yes and everyone lost except the UAW, who were the very problem to begin
with.
# GM management signed every one of those contracts.
GM management was coerced into signing every one of those contracts.
The can got kicked far enough down the road that it killed the company,
and it should have been allowed to die.
If GM management is susceptible to coercion to the detriment of the
company, they deserve to go out of business.
gm got into trouble because america has no real industrial policy.
instead we have this free market dribble, that has never worked
period, no matter when or where its tried.

the republican party is simply running out of al bundy, homer
simpson, archie bunker types. people so stupid, they cannot even do
basic math, let alone come in from the rain.
the constitution of the united states was a anti-conservative
statement by the majority of the founders of the united states of
america.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 but upon careful examination "THE CONSERVATIVES"  feeble attempts at
confusion and dishonesty does not stand up to the light. they live in
a counter-factual universe, the product of the hermetically sealed
"CONSERVATIVE" subculture. Trying to see the world through the lens
of
"THE CONSERVATIVE", is like looking at a fun-house mirror;
everything’s backwards and distorted.

"THE CONSERVATIVES" world view is flawed because its based upon a
small and particularly rosy sliver of reality.  To preserve that world
view, "THE CONSERVATIVES" believe that people had morally earned their
“just” desserts, and had to ignore those whining liberals who tried to
point out that the world didn’t actually work that way.  I think this
shows why "THE CONSERVATIVES" put so much effort into “creat[ing]
their own reality,” into fostering distrust of liberals, experts,
scientists, and academics, and why they won’t let a campaign “be
dictated by fact-checkers” (as a Romney pollster put it).  It explains
why study after study shows that avid consumers of "THE CONSERVATIVE"-
oriented media are more poorly informed than people who use other news
sources or don’t bother to follow the news at all.
BeamMeUpScotty
2012-09-27 19:01:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nickname unavailable
Post by Bob
Post by Wayne
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Post by Wayne
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
And GM bond holders (aka, probably in the average Joe's IRA or 401K) got
screwed big time, by Obama's unilateral rewriting of contract law.
... and Obama saved the UAW, whose contracts would have had to be
rewritten if GM had gone through the normal bankruptcy proceedings.
When the UAW demands too much and bankrupts the company, maybe the UAW
should suffer the consequence of their actions.
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Bottom line: It was not a bailout of GM, but a bailout of Obama's
allies, the UAW.
Yes and everyone lost except the UAW, who were the very problem to begin
with.
# GM management signed every one of those contracts.
GM management was coerced into signing every one of those contracts.
The can got kicked far enough down the road that it killed the company,
and it should have been allowed to die.
If GM management is susceptible to coercion to the detriment of the
company, they deserve to go out of business.
gm got into trouble because america has no real industrial policy.
instead we have this free market dribble, that has never worked
period, no matter when or where its tried.
The less free the markets the more complete the failure is when we have
a recession/depression.


Remember that even Liberals says diversity is good.
Wayne
2012-09-27 23:58:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob
Post by Wayne
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Post by Wayne
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
And GM bond holders (aka, probably in the average Joe's IRA or 401K) got
screwed big time, by Obama's unilateral rewriting of contract law.
... and Obama saved the UAW, whose contracts would have had to be
rewritten if GM had gone through the normal bankruptcy proceedings.
When the UAW demands too much and bankrupts the company, maybe the UAW
should suffer the consequence of their actions.
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Bottom line: It was not a bailout of GM, but a bailout of Obama's
allies, the UAW.
Yes and everyone lost except the UAW, who were the very problem to begin
with.
# GM management signed every one of those contracts.
GM management was coerced into signing every one of those contracts.
The can got kicked far enough down the road that it killed the company,
and it should have been allowed to die.
If GM management is susceptible to coercion to the detriment of the
company, they deserve to go out of business.
# gm got into trouble because america has no real industrial policy.
# instead we have this free market dribble, that has never worked
# period, no matter when or where its tried.

Just blew your credibility. The free market system is the only one that has
ever worked.
Sid9
2012-09-28 02:08:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wayne
Post by Bob
Post by Wayne
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Post by Wayne
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
And GM bond holders (aka, probably in the average Joe's IRA or 401K) got
screwed big time, by Obama's unilateral rewriting of contract law.
... and Obama saved the UAW, whose contracts would have had to be
rewritten if GM had gone through the normal bankruptcy proceedings.
When the UAW demands too much and bankrupts the company, maybe the UAW
should suffer the consequence of their actions.
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Bottom line: It was not a bailout of GM, but a bailout of Obama's
allies, the UAW.
Yes and everyone lost except the UAW, who were the very problem to begin
with.
# GM management signed every one of those contracts.
GM management was coerced into signing every one of those contracts.
The can got kicked far enough down the road that it killed the company,
and it should have been allowed to die.
If GM management is susceptible to coercion to the detriment of the
company, they deserve to go out of business.
# gm got into trouble because america has no real industrial policy.
# instead we have this free market dribble, that has never worked
# period, no matter when or where its tried.
Just blew your credibility. The free market system is the only one that
has ever worked.
The "free market" is a proven failure due to instability.

Until FDR...the United States had a panic or a crash on average EVERY 18
years.
The instability resumed in 2008 after the regulations had been removed,
starting the Saint Reagan, the senile, followed soon after by bush,jr, the
incompetent. (Both Republicans, just like Romney)

Thankfully President Obama will be re-elected.
Nickname unavailable
2012-09-28 05:36:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sid9
Post by Bob
Post by Wayne
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Post by Wayne
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
And GM bond holders (aka, probably in the average Joe's IRA or 401K) got
screwed big time, by Obama's unilateral rewriting of contract law.
... and Obama saved the UAW, whose contracts would have had to be
rewritten if GM had gone through the normal bankruptcy proceedings.
When the UAW demands too much and bankrupts the company, maybe the UAW
should suffer the consequence of their actions.
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Bottom line: It was not a bailout of GM, but a bailout of Obama's
allies, the UAW.
Yes and everyone lost except the UAW, who were the very problem to begin
with.
# GM management signed every one of those contracts.
GM management was coerced into signing every one of those contracts.
The can got kicked far enough down the road that it killed the company,
and it should have been allowed to die.
If GM management is susceptible to coercion to the detriment of the
company, they deserve to go out of business.
#  gm got into trouble because america has no real industrial policy.
# instead we have this free market dribble, that has never worked
# period, no matter when or where its tried.
Just blew your credibility.  The free market system is the only one that
has ever worked.
The "free market" is a proven failure due to instability.
Until FDR...the United States had a panic or a crash on average EVERY 18
years.
The instability resumed in 2008 after the regulations had been removed,
starting the Saint Reagan, the senile, followed soon after by bush,jr, the
incompetent. (Both Republicans, just like Romney)
Thankfully President Obama will be re-elected.
you are correct sid, can they lie that away, of course they can.
they cling to a tiny sliver of reality, and will not let facts enter
into anything. they simply will not allow reality to trump ideology.


the people who ran america from 1933-1981, who delivered the highest
standard
of living to its people, the world has ever seen. year in, year out,
debt loads were small, budgets balanced, we were a net creditor
nation, a net exporter nation, there were no real economic bubbles of
any consequences. we had consistently low unemployment and rising
wages, we had no real deep recessions, nor one depression in fifty
plus years.
 or is wayne speaking of the people who have ran america from
1981-2009. who have ran up huge debts, turned a net
creditor nation, into a net debtor nation, who turned a net exporter
nation, into a net importer nation. who have had one economic bubble
after another, resulting in ever deeper recessions, with falling
wages, real employment creeping ever higher, and living standards
creeping ever lower. does wayne mean those looters correct:)
BeamMeUpScotty
2012-09-28 13:37:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sid9
Post by Wayne
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Wayne
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Post by Wayne
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
And GM bond holders (aka, probably in the average Joe's IRA or
401K)
Post by Wayne
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Post by Wayne
got
screwed big time, by Obama's unilateral rewriting of contract law.
... and Obama saved the UAW, whose contracts would have had to be
rewritten if GM had gone through the normal bankruptcy proceedings.
When the UAW demands too much and bankrupts the company, maybe the
UAW
Post by Wayne
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
should suffer the consequence of their actions.
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Bottom line: It was not a bailout of GM, but a bailout of Obama's
allies, the UAW.
Yes and everyone lost except the UAW, who were the very problem to begin
with.
# GM management signed every one of those contracts.
GM management was coerced into signing every one of those contracts.
The can got kicked far enough down the road that it killed the
company,
Post by Wayne
and it should have been allowed to die.
If GM management is susceptible to coercion to the detriment of the
company, they deserve to go out of business.
# gm got into trouble because america has no real industrial policy.
# instead we have this free market dribble, that has never worked
# period, no matter when or where its tried.
Just blew your credibility. The free market system is the only one
that has ever worked.
The "free market" is a proven failure due to instability.
Until FDR...the United States had a panic or a crash on average EVERY 18
years.
The instability resumed in 2008 after the regulations had been removed,
starting the Saint Reagan, the senile, followed soon after by bush,jr,
the incompetent. (Both Republicans, just like Romney)
Thankfully President Obama will be re-elected.
Thankfully we will have 4 more years just like the last 4 years.....


four more years of Nasty hateful people dividing the Nation and running
the economy into the dirt.


I can hardly wait.....
--
*Rumination*
#24 - Business is the art of making painful choices and getting it right
often enough to stay in business.
Nickname unavailable
2012-09-28 05:15:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob
Post by Wayne
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Post by Wayne
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
And GM bond holders (aka, probably in the average Joe's IRA or 401K) got
screwed big time, by Obama's unilateral rewriting of contract law.
... and Obama saved the UAW, whose contracts would have had to be
rewritten if GM had gone through the normal bankruptcy proceedings.
When the UAW demands too much and bankrupts the company, maybe the UAW
should suffer the consequence of their actions.
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Bottom line: It was not a bailout of GM, but a bailout of Obama's
allies, the UAW.
Yes and everyone lost except the UAW, who were the very problem to begin
with.
# GM management signed every one of those contracts.
GM management was coerced into signing every one of those contracts.
The can got kicked far enough down the road that it killed the company,
and it should have been allowed to die.
If GM management is susceptible to coercion to the detriment of the
company, they deserve to go out of business.
#  gm got into trouble because america has no real industrial policy.
# instead we have this free market dribble, that has never worked
# period, no matter when or where its tried.
Just blew your credibility.  The free market system is the only one that has
ever worked.
nope, its never worked, and the founders knew that. its why they
enshrined government intervention into the constitution. the founders
rebelled against the british free market.

Remember, when a Republican talks about "Free" Markets, they mean

Free of Regulation
Free of Oversight
Free of Competition
Free of Ethics
Free of Morality
Free of Common Sense
Free of Long Term Thinking'
Sid9
2012-09-25 18:35:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wayne
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Post by Wayne
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
And GM bond holders (aka, probably in the average Joe's IRA or 401K) got
screwed big time, by Obama's unilateral rewriting of contract law.
... and Obama saved the UAW, whose contracts would have had to be
rewritten if GM had gone through the normal bankruptcy proceedings.
When the UAW demands too much and bankrupts the company, maybe the UAW
should suffer the consequence of their actions.
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Bottom line: It was not a bailout of GM, but a bailout of Obama's
allies, the UAW.
Yes and everyone lost except the UAW, who were the very problem to begin
with.
# GM management signed every one of those contracts.
GM management was coerced into signing every one of those contracts. The
can got kicked far enough down the road that it killed the company, and it
should have been allowed to die.
.
.
.
GM management sucked.
Labor contracts were not their only failing.

They made lousy cars.

They watched Toyota bring in cars that were a better deal for their
customers.
Instead of buying a Camry and dissecting it down to the last screw they
continued to make Chevrolet rust buckets.

No surprise, their market was eaten away.

Unions did not design or market those cars, management did.
Wayne
2012-09-25 21:57:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wayne
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Post by Wayne
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
And GM bond holders (aka, probably in the average Joe's IRA or 401K) got
screwed big time, by Obama's unilateral rewriting of contract law.
... and Obama saved the UAW, whose contracts would have had to be
rewritten if GM had gone through the normal bankruptcy proceedings.
When the UAW demands too much and bankrupts the company, maybe the UAW
should suffer the consequence of their actions.
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Bottom line: It was not a bailout of GM, but a bailout of Obama's
allies, the UAW.
Yes and everyone lost except the UAW, who were the very problem to begin
with.
# GM management signed every one of those contracts.
GM management was coerced into signing every one of those contracts. The
can got kicked far enough down the road that it killed the company, and it
should have been allowed to die.
.
.
.
# GM management sucked.
# Labor contracts were not their only failing.

# They made lousy cars.

Shit....Sid and I agree on something. To this day, I wouldn't own a piece
of crap made by GM.

# They watched Toyota bring in cars that were a better deal for their
# customers.
# Instead of buying a Camry and dissecting it down to the last screw they
# continued to make Chevrolet rust buckets.

# No surprise, their market was eaten away.

Damn......Sid and I agree on something else. I've only owned Toyoto
products (Lexus) since my last GM....a piece of crap 1990 Suburban that was
like a lean and hungry animal eating me out of house and home.
BeamMeUpScotty
2012-09-25 23:28:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wayne
Post by Wayne
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Post by Wayne
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
And GM bond holders (aka, probably in the average Joe's IRA or 401K) got
screwed big time, by Obama's unilateral rewriting of contract law.
... and Obama saved the UAW, whose contracts would have had to be
rewritten if GM had gone through the normal bankruptcy proceedings.
When the UAW demands too much and bankrupts the company, maybe the UAW
should suffer the consequence of their actions.
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Bottom line: It was not a bailout of GM, but a bailout of Obama's
allies, the UAW.
Yes and everyone lost except the UAW, who were the very problem to begin
with.
# GM management signed every one of those contracts.
GM management was coerced into signing every one of those contracts.
The can got kicked far enough down the road that it killed the
company, and it should have been allowed to die.
.
.
.
# GM management sucked.
# Labor contracts were not their only failing.
# They made lousy cars.
Shit....Sid and I agree on something. To this day, I wouldn't own a
piece of crap made by GM.
# They watched Toyota bring in cars that were a better deal for their
# customers.
# Instead of buying a Camry and dissecting it down to the last screw they
# continued to make Chevrolet rust buckets.
# No surprise, their market was eaten away.
Damn......Sid and I agree on something else. I've only owned Toyoto
products (Lexus) since my last GM....a piece of crap 1990 Suburban that
was like a lean and hungry animal eating me out of house and home.
My sisters Toyota has 190,000 miles and never needed any major repair,
just tires and brakes and struts once and a window.


I'm fairly impressed because, I had an Oldsmobile cutlas years ago and
it only made it 130,000 and it was falling apart, but I will admit that
the paint on that car was good. It was a Cutlass Supreme Brougham so it
had all the best stuff, or so they said.... and while the paint was
good the rest of the car was mediocre at best. Then again the paint on
that Toyota looks OK too.

I never cared much for Toyota until I saw them last longer than any
Chevy I had. I personally rebuilt dozens of straight six engines and
350 V8 engines.... I knew Chevy inside out. I sold my last Chevy truck
about 4 years ago.
Nickname unavailable
2012-09-27 19:02:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sid9
Post by Wayne
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Post by Wayne
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
And GM bond holders (aka, probably in the average Joe's IRA or 401K) got
screwed big time, by Obama's unilateral rewriting of contract law.
... and Obama saved the UAW, whose contracts would have had to be
rewritten if GM had gone through the normal bankruptcy proceedings.
When the UAW demands too much and bankrupts the company, maybe the UAW
should suffer the consequence of their actions.
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Bottom line: It was not a bailout of GM, but a bailout of Obama's
allies, the UAW.
Yes and everyone lost except the UAW, who were the very problem to begin
with.
# GM management signed every one of those contracts.
GM management was coerced into signing every one of those contracts.   The
can got kicked far enough down the road that it killed the company, and it
should have been allowed to die.
.
.
.
GM management sucked.
Labor contracts were not their only failing.
They made lousy cars.
They watched Toyota bring in cars that were a better deal for their
customers.
Instead of buying a Camry and dissecting it down to the last screw they
continued to make Chevrolet rust buckets.
No surprise, their market was eaten away.
Unions did not design or market those cars, management did.
yep, it was all management. unions had nothing to do with it. lets
face it sid, in a free market, do not be to surprised if left onto
themselves, the free market will asset strip just about anything and
everything, in a attempt for ever higher profits.
lets face it sid, there is no reasoning with idiots. the japanese,
european and korean car companies for the most part, are unionized,
and have won hefty concessions from their employers. yet built better
cars, and sold them at higher prices in most cases.
Nickname unavailable
2012-09-27 18:48:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wayne
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Post by Wayne
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
And GM bond holders (aka, probably in the average Joe's IRA or 401K) got
screwed big time, by Obama's unilateral rewriting of contract law.
... and Obama saved the UAW, whose contracts would have had to be
rewritten if GM had gone through the normal bankruptcy proceedings.
When the UAW demands too much and bankrupts the company, maybe the UAW
should suffer the consequence of their actions.
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Bottom line: It was not a bailout of GM, but a bailout of Obama's
allies, the UAW.
Yes and everyone lost except the UAW, who were the very problem to begin
with.
# GM management signed every one of those contracts.
GM management was coerced into signing every one of those contracts.   The
can got kicked far enough down the road that it killed the company, and it
should have been allowed to die.
just about every car manufacturing company in the world is unionized,
and most are doing quite well, thanks to good government
policies:)))))))))))))))))))))
Barry Bruyea
2012-09-27 22:32:09 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 27 Sep 2012 11:48:12 -0700 (PDT), Nickname unavailable
Post by Nickname unavailable
Post by Wayne
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Post by Wayne
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
And GM bond holders (aka, probably in the average Joe's IRA or 401K) got
screwed big time, by Obama's unilateral rewriting of contract law.
... and Obama saved the UAW, whose contracts would have had to be
rewritten if GM had gone through the normal bankruptcy proceedings.
When the UAW demands too much and bankrupts the company, maybe the UAW
should suffer the consequence of their actions.
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Bottom line: It was not a bailout of GM, but a bailout of Obama's
allies, the UAW.
Yes and everyone lost except the UAW, who were the very problem to begin
with.
# GM management signed every one of those contracts.
GM management was coerced into signing every one of those contracts.   The
can got kicked far enough down the road that it killed the company, and it
should have been allowed to die.
just about every car manufacturing company in the world is unionized,
and most are doing quite well, thanks to good government
policies:)))))))))))))))))))))
Some of the most successful in the U.S. like Toyota, Hyundai are not
unionized. Toyota in Canada as well as Honda are not unionized.
BeamMeUpScotty
2012-09-27 22:48:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Barry Bruyea
On Thu, 27 Sep 2012 11:48:12 -0700 (PDT), Nickname unavailable
Post by Nickname unavailable
Post by Wayne
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Post by Wayne
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
And GM bond holders (aka, probably in the average Joe's IRA or 401K) got
screwed big time, by Obama's unilateral rewriting of contract law.
... and Obama saved the UAW, whose contracts would have had to be
rewritten if GM had gone through the normal bankruptcy proceedings.
When the UAW demands too much and bankrupts the company, maybe the UAW
should suffer the consequence of their actions.
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Bottom line: It was not a bailout of GM, but a bailout of Obama's
allies, the UAW.
Yes and everyone lost except the UAW, who were the very problem to begin
with.
# GM management signed every one of those contracts.
GM management was coerced into signing every one of those contracts. The
can got kicked far enough down the road that it killed the company, and it
should have been allowed to die.
just about every car manufacturing company in the world is unionized,
and most are doing quite well, thanks to good government
policies:)))))))))))))))))))))
Some of the most successful in the U.S. like Toyota, Hyundai are not
unionized. Toyota in Canada as well as Honda are not unionized.
tell me it ain't so...... do they beat their workers and chain them to
the work station?


Aaaahhhh the inhumanity of it all......
Nickname unavailable
2012-09-28 05:10:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Barry Bruyea
On Thu, 27 Sep 2012 11:48:12 -0700 (PDT), Nickname unavailable
Post by Nickname unavailable
Post by Wayne
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Post by Wayne
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
And GM bond holders (aka, probably in the average Joe's IRA or 401K) got
screwed big time, by Obama's unilateral rewriting of contract law.
... and Obama saved the UAW, whose contracts would have had to be
rewritten if GM had gone through the normal bankruptcy proceedings.
When the UAW demands too much and bankrupts the company, maybe the UAW
should suffer the consequence of their actions.
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Bottom line: It was not a bailout of GM, but a bailout of Obama's
allies, the UAW.
Yes and everyone lost except the UAW, who were the very problem to begin
with.
# GM management signed every one of those contracts.
GM management was coerced into signing every one of those contracts.   The
can got kicked far enough down the road that it killed the company, and it
should have been allowed to die.
just about every car manufacturing company in the world is unionized,
and most are doing quite well, thanks to good government
policies:)))))))))))))))))))))
Some of the most successful in the U.S. like Toyota, Hyundai are not
unionized.  Toyota in Canada as well as Honda are not unionized.
as you can see, the amount of cars built in foreign non union
assembly plants in the u.s.a. are quite small, compared to how many
cars they build in heavily unionized, or government run assembly
plants such as "THE CONSERVATIVES"
best friends, the chinese communist party, which owns controlling
interests in their plants.
as you can see, the korean government has heavily manipulated their
car companies, and in many cases the companies are heavily unionized.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_industry_in_South_Korea

the Korean automobile industry suffered greatly from the 1979 energy
crisis, and the consequent local recession. The government took action
to resolve this difficult situation in 1982 by implementing the
"Automobile Industry Rationalization Policy", the objective of which
was to prevent excessive competition between the four major domestic
automakers: Hyundai Motors, Kia Industry, General Motors Korea, and
Asia Motors. Additionally, the government postponed its import
liberalization of automobiles.
Towards the end of the 20th century, however, the industry began to
face tremendous pressures at home, with the domestic market growing at
under five percent, and greater competition, both locally and abroad.
With energy waste, air pollution, and traffic congestion becoming more
chronic, the Korean government has imposed the heaviest vehicle excise
duty on automobiles and gasoline among the major automobile-producing
countries. In 1985, the number of vehicles registered in Korea was one
million, but by 1995 the total had increased to eight million. In
response to these pressures, Korean automakers have become more
aggressive in terms of pricing and quality, and begun developing
larger cars, and broadening their product ranges to meet diverse
customer preferences.

the reason why they are beating us so badly, is because their car
companies are heavily regulated by their governments, and the
companies are heavily unionized.
so i hope that you are not a "CONSERVATIVE", and that i did not tramp
to heavily on the very tiny sliver of reality, that "THE
CONSERVATIVES" feverishly cling to:)



http://www.worldometers.info/cars/



Which country produces most cars?
China.
1 out of 4 cars produced in the world comes from China.
China
was the world’s third-largest car market in 2006, as car sales in
China soared by nearly 40% to 4.1 million units. Soon thereafter,
China took the lead and became the world’s first-largest car market,
as low vehicle penetration, rising incomes, greater credit
availability and falling car prices lift sales past those of Japan.
Furthermore, vehicle penetration in China still stands at only about
40 vehicles per 1,000 people, compared with approximately 700 vehicles
per 1,000 people in the mature markets of the G7.
More than half of the cars are produced in Asia and Oceania, whereas
Europe produces almost a third.
Below, a summary of global car production by country in 2011:
Rank

Country
Cars produced
% of total
world production
1

China
14,485,326
24.2%
2

Japan
7,158,525
11.9%
3

Germany
5,871,918
9.8%
4

South Korea
4,221,617
7.0%
5

India
3,053,871
5.1%
6

U.S.A.
2,966,133
4.9%
7

Brazil
2,534,534
4.2%
8

France
1,931,030
3.2%
9

Spain
1,819,453
3.0%
10

Russia
1,738,163
2.9%
11

Mexico
1,657,080
2.8%
12

Iran
1,413,276
2.4%
13

U.K.
1,343,810
2.2%
14

Czech Republic
1,191,968
2.0%
15

Canada
990,483
1.7%
16

Poland
785,000
1.3%
17

Slovakia
639,763
1.1%
18

Turkey
639,734
1.1%
19

Argentina
577,233
1.0%
20

Belgium
562,386
1.0%
21

Indonesia
561,863
1.0%
22

Thailand
549,770
0.9%
23

Malaysia
496,440
0.8%
24

Italy
485,606
0.8%
25

Romania
310,243
0.5%
26

Taiwan
288,523
0.5%
27

Hungary
200,000
0.3%
28

Sweden
188,969
0.3%
29

Slovenia
168,955
0.3%
30

Uzbekistan
146,300
0.2%
31

Portugal
141,779
0.2%
32

Pakistan
139,200
0.2%
33

Austria
130,343
0.2%
34

Ukraine
97,585
0.2%
35

Venezuela
69,115
0.1%
36

Vietnam
43,780
0.1%
37

Philippines
43,280
0.1%
38

Netherlands
40,772
0.1%
39

Colombia
30,000
0.1%
40

Serbia
15,050
0.0%
41

Finland
2,540
0.0%


Others
197,600
0.3%


Total
59,929,016
100.0%
Nickname unavailable
2012-09-27 18:44:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Post by Wayne
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
And GM bond holders (aka, probably in the average Joe's IRA or 401K) got
screwed big time, by Obama's unilateral rewriting of contract law.
... and Obama saved the UAW, whose contracts would have had to be
rewritten if GM had gone through the normal bankruptcy proceedings.
Bottom line: It was not a bailout of GM, but a bailout of Obama's
allies, the UAW.
yea and bush bailed out wall street. on top of that, just about every
car company in the world took money from governments all over the
world. face it idiot, your comprehension skills are at best,
appalling.

the founders wanted production, and hated concentrated wealth. the
majority of the founders were liberals:))))))))) so bailing out
production, was a original constitutional intent,
ROTFLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

the founders of the american government loaned paul revere start up
money for industrial production:america was founded on a strong
government with broad based powers to tax/legislate/regulate and to
promote and provide for the general welfare


http://americanmanufacturing.org/blog/paul-revere-us-manufacturer-saved-day-237-years-ago-today

Paul Revere, U.S. manufacturer, saved the day--237 years ago today
Posted by scapozzola on 04/18/2012





Today is April 18, 2012...
On this day in 1775, Paul Revere rode to Lexington, Massachusetts, to
warn Samuel Adams and John Hancock that British troops were marching
to arrest them. After being rowed across the Charles River to
Charlestown by two associates, Revere borrowed a horse from his friend
Deacon John Larkin and set out on horseback.

On the way to Lexington,
Revere "alarmed" the country-side, stopping at each house to announce
that "The British are coming."
Revere's ride was made famous in Henry Wadsworth Longfellow's poem,
"Paul Revere's Ride."  But Revere is also recognized as one of the
nation's first great manufacturers.  A metalworker and silversmith,
Revere's work became highly prized, and he produced more than 5,000
products in his shop, including buckles, buttons, rings and beads.
Revere understood the need for a nation to be industrially self-
sufficient.  To rectify desperate shortages of gunpowder during the
Revolutionary War, Revere studied the one working gunpowder mill in
the colonies, located in Philadelphia.  He subsequently built a new
powder mill in Canton, Massachusetts that produced tons of gunpowder
for the revolutionary army.
After the war, and finding the silver trade to be more difficult,
Revere became a pioneer in the production of rolled copper, opening
North America's first copper mill south of Boston in Canton, in 1800.
Revere had initially launched his copper works at the behest of the
U.S. government.  Concerned about a possible second war with the
British, the U.S. Navy loaned Revere $10,000 to launch a foundry that
couuld sheathe the hulls of naval vessels with protective copper
layering.  The early U.S. government astutely feared a potential
second conflict with the British and, in recognizing the need for both
greater domestic manufacturing and national secturity, funded the
start-up of Revere's company.
After the initial naval work, copper from the Revere Copper Company
was used to cover the original wooden dome of the Massachusetts State
House in 1802. The firm also cast the first church bell made in Boston
and ultimately produced more than 900 church bells. This church bell
worked helped Revere to pay off his debts to the U.S. government and
expand his business.

Revere's copper and brass works eventually grew
into a large national corporation, Revere Copper and Brass, Inc. That
company continues today as the Revere Copper Products in Rome, New
York.
Revere Copper's Chairman, Brian O'Shaughnessy, says that Revere's
legacy is still exceptionally relevant today, and that his spirit of
craftsmanship and innovation lives on, fused with the copper
industry's most advanced technologies and highest standards of
excellence.  Revere Copper continues to advocate for domestic U.S.
manufacturers and is outspoken in its concerns about America remaining
competitive in the face of "the mercantilism of China and other
countries."
Nickname unavailable
2012-09-27 18:41:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wayne
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
And GM bond holders (aka, probably in the average Joe's IRA or 401K) got
screwed big time, by Obama's unilateral rewriting of contract law.
i have never met a conservative yet, that understands what a contract
is, unless its in their favor. just ask scott
walker:)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Canuck57
2012-09-25 22:11:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
What a farce. Obama didn't create jobs, he stole taxpayers money and
mortgaged your grand kids future for corruption today.

An economy is only going to produce/consume so many vehicles, with
America bankrupt on debt, consumption is limited.

If GM just closed its doors completely and folded completely, Ford,
Chrysler wouldn't have laid off as many and picked up the slack. So in
reality Obama didn't create any jobs at all and may have removed jobs
from the future as debt doesn't create jobs in the big picture. Debt is
wealth consumption.

Reality is billions spent, loans not fully repaid, taxpayers share
losses, all add up to a huge waste. Gov'mint Motors should have done
like Chryler, go bankrupt for real and be reorganized after firing the
root and old boys corruption club.

Chrysler is now a profitable company, as the new CEO in its
reorganization fired the entire board and executive offers in the first
month!!! No screwing around because it is other peoples money, the
taxpayers money....it was fix up your screw ball mess or die.

Cleaning house of old boys stagnation and incompetence, towing the line
with unions, getting back customer focus and not do Volt like disasters
means Chrysler is again profitable why Gov'Mint Motors remains the
epitome of waste and dysfunction.

For all of Obama's big mouth, and $6 trillion of debt, Americans should
be disgusted that the results. But hey, Obama's Solyndra buddies did
like that $535 million in bailouts for contributions.

But hey, far too many Americans and Candians vote with envy, greed and
are lead like sheeples to the false god diety gov'mint.

Gov'mint can't fix the economic problems as it is the very source of the
problems.

But people vote not on logic or performance, just the next credit card
and envy/greed.

GM will go down, just how much of taxpayers wealth and delinquent debt
will it leave for the kids and grand kids to pay for. Bernanke can
print it, but just devalues your wages in the ponzi fraud of gov'mint
money and debt.
--
Liberal-socialism is a great idea so long as the credit is good and
other people pay for it. When the credit runs out and those that pay
for it leave, they can all share having nothing but debt and discontentment.
unknown
2012-09-26 01:53:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
Auto production in states that didn't support was eliminated, such as Tn
and thousands of jobs.
The entire Saturn and Pontiac lines were eliminated. Some nerds didn't
like the idea, of affordable 2 seat convertibles, too dangerous for
Americans and eliminating the cheaper lines. Thousands and thousands of
jobs.
The Bankers and Corporations and Greenies play our government like a violin.
Sid9
2012-09-26 02:10:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by unknown
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
Auto production in states that didn't support was eliminated, such as Tn
and thousands of jobs.
The entire Saturn and Pontiac lines were eliminated. Some nerds didn't
like the idea, of affordable 2 seat convertibles, too dangerous for
Americans and eliminating the cheaper lines. Thousands and thousands of
jobs.
The Bankers and Corporations and Greenies play our government like a violin.
.
.
GM as mismanaged company.
Bankrupt and reorganized...still alive!
Anonymous
2012-09-26 04:17:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sid9
Post by unknown
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
Auto production in states that didn't support was eliminated, such as Tn
and thousands of jobs.
The entire Saturn and Pontiac lines were eliminated. Some nerds didn't
like the idea, of affordable 2 seat convertibles, too dangerous for
Americans and eliminating the cheaper lines. Thousands and thousands of
jobs.
The Bankers and Corporations and Greenies play our government like a violin.
.
.
GM as mismanaged company.
Bankrupt and reorganized...still alive!
Mismanaged by Obama's handpicked henchmen and getting ready to
file bankruptcy again you stupid ass.

Obama has the financial acumen of a persimmon.
BeamMeUpScotty
2012-09-26 18:44:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Anonymous
Post by Sid9
Post by unknown
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
Auto production in states that didn't support was eliminated, such as Tn
and thousands of jobs.
The entire Saturn and Pontiac lines were eliminated. Some nerds didn't
like the idea, of affordable 2 seat convertibles, too dangerous for
Americans and eliminating the cheaper lines. Thousands and thousands of
jobs.
The Bankers and Corporations and Greenies play our government like a violin.
.
.
GM as mismanaged company.
Bankrupt and reorganized...still alive!
Mismanaged by Obama's handpicked henchmen and getting ready to
file bankruptcy again you stupid ass.
As soon as Obama loses the election, GM will start the process of making
it look like they are going bankrupt the accountants will set to work to
show them as failing, rather than faking this facade of actually making
money.....
Wayne
2012-09-26 23:37:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Anonymous
Post by Sid9
Post by unknown
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
Auto production in states that didn't support was eliminated, such as Tn
and thousands of jobs.
The entire Saturn and Pontiac lines were eliminated. Some nerds didn't
like the idea, of affordable 2 seat convertibles, too dangerous for
Americans and eliminating the cheaper lines. Thousands and thousands of
jobs.
The Bankers and Corporations and Greenies play our government like a violin.
.
.
GM as mismanaged company.
Bankrupt and reorganized...still alive!
Mismanaged by Obama's handpicked henchmen and getting ready to
file bankruptcy again you stupid ass.
# As soon as Obama loses the election, GM will start the process of making
# it look like they are going bankrupt the accountants will set to work to
# show them as failing, rather than faking this facade of actually making
# money.....

GM already appears to be edging toward bankruptcy. And of course, Sid will
crow about all the money that GM paid back to the government.

The fly in that ointment is that GM got that money from TARP. The took
money from one pocket of government, put it in a different government pocket
and claimed success.
Sid9
2012-09-27 00:48:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wayne
Post by Anonymous
Post by Sid9
Post by unknown
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
Auto production in states that didn't support was eliminated, such as Tn
and thousands of jobs.
The entire Saturn and Pontiac lines were eliminated. Some nerds didn't
like the idea, of affordable 2 seat convertibles, too dangerous for
Americans and eliminating the cheaper lines. Thousands and thousands of
jobs.
The Bankers and Corporations and Greenies play our government like a violin.
.
.
GM as mismanaged company.
Bankrupt and reorganized...still alive!
Mismanaged by Obama's handpicked henchmen and getting ready to
file bankruptcy again you stupid ass.
# As soon as Obama loses the election, GM will start the process of making
# it look like they are going bankrupt the accountants will set to work to
# show them as failing, rather than faking this facade of actually making
# money.....
GM already appears to be edging toward bankruptcy. And of course, Sid
will crow about all the money that GM paid back to the government.
The fly in that ointment is that GM got that money from TARP. The took
money from one pocket of government, put it in a different government
pocket and claimed success.
We could have done nothing.

Killed the local economy.

Stopped GM workers from paying taxes.

Both the private and the public sectors of the economy would have been
devastated.

We create governments to ameliorate these problems.

You would have anarchy as your design for living
Wayne
2012-09-27 16:09:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wayne
Post by Anonymous
Post by Sid9
Post by unknown
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
Auto production in states that didn't support was eliminated, such as Tn
and thousands of jobs.
The entire Saturn and Pontiac lines were eliminated. Some nerds didn't
like the idea, of affordable 2 seat convertibles, too dangerous for
Americans and eliminating the cheaper lines. Thousands and thousands of
jobs.
The Bankers and Corporations and Greenies play our government like a violin.
.
.
GM as mismanaged company.
Bankrupt and reorganized...still alive!
Mismanaged by Obama's handpicked henchmen and getting ready to
file bankruptcy again you stupid ass.
# As soon as Obama loses the election, GM will start the process of making
# it look like they are going bankrupt the accountants will set to work to
# show them as failing, rather than faking this facade of actually making
# money.....
GM already appears to be edging toward bankruptcy. And of course, Sid
will crow about all the money that GM paid back to the government.
The fly in that ointment is that GM got that money from TARP. The took
money from one pocket of government, put it in a different government
pocket and claimed success.
# We could have done nothing.

# Killed the local economy.

# Stopped GM workers from paying taxes.

# Both the private and the public sectors of the economy would have been
# devastated.

Total speculation on your part. Who says that GM would have even gone out
of business using the normal chapter 11 laws?
"Saving 75,000" jobs is just a bullshit claim.


# We create governments to ameliorate these problems.

And governments are expected to observe existing law. Obama violated those
and other laws to pander to his voting base.
BeamMeUpScotty
2012-09-27 16:58:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wayne
Post by Wayne
Post by Anonymous
Post by Sid9
Post by unknown
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
Auto production in states that didn't support was eliminated, such as Tn
and thousands of jobs.
The entire Saturn and Pontiac lines were eliminated. Some nerds didn't
like the idea, of affordable 2 seat convertibles, too dangerous for
Americans and eliminating the cheaper lines. Thousands and
thousands of
jobs.
The Bankers and Corporations and Greenies play our government like a violin.
.
.
GM as mismanaged company.
Bankrupt and reorganized...still alive!
Mismanaged by Obama's handpicked henchmen and getting ready to
file bankruptcy again you stupid ass.
# As soon as Obama loses the election, GM will start the process of making
# it look like they are going bankrupt the accountants will set to work to
# show them as failing, rather than faking this facade of actually making
# money.....
GM already appears to be edging toward bankruptcy. And of course, Sid
will crow about all the money that GM paid back to the government.
The fly in that ointment is that GM got that money from TARP. The
took money from one pocket of government, put it in a different
government pocket and claimed success.
# We could have done nothing.
# Killed the local economy.
That's the Obama plan for COAL.....

Kill the local coal electric and also the coal miners jobs.


Why is good for GM UNION workers to have a job and bad for coal miners
to have a job?
Bret Cahill
2012-09-27 19:25:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Wayne
Post by Wayne
Post by Anonymous
Post by Sid9
Post by unknown
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
Auto production in states that didn't support was eliminated, such as Tn
and thousands of jobs.
The entire Saturn and Pontiac lines were eliminated. Some nerds didn't
like the idea, of affordable 2 seat convertibles, too dangerous for
Americans and eliminating the cheaper lines. Thousands and thousands of
jobs.
The Bankers and Corporations and Greenies play our government like a violin.
.
.
GM as mismanaged company.
Bankrupt and reorganized...still alive!
Mismanaged by Obama's handpicked henchmen and getting ready to
file bankruptcy again you stupid ass.
# As soon as Obama loses the election, GM will start the process of making
# it look like they are going bankrupt the accountants will set to work to
# show them as failing, rather than faking this facade of actually making
# money.....
GM already appears to be edging toward bankruptcy.  And of course, Sid
will crow about all the money that GM paid back to the government.
The fly in that ointment is that GM got that money from TARP.  The
took money from one pocket of government, put it in a different
government pocket and claimed success.
# We could have done nothing.
# Killed the local economy.
That's the Obama plan for COAL.....
Kill the local coal electric and also the coal miners jobs.
Why is good for GM UNION workers to have a job and bad for coal miners
to have a job?
Cars will eventually run on biofuel or solar.


Bret Cahill
BeamMeUpScotty
2012-09-27 19:35:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bret Cahill
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Wayne
Post by Wayne
Post by Anonymous
Post by Sid9
Post by unknown
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
Auto production in states that didn't support was eliminated, such as Tn
and thousands of jobs.
The entire Saturn and Pontiac lines were eliminated. Some nerds didn't
like the idea, of affordable 2 seat convertibles, too dangerous for
Americans and eliminating the cheaper lines. Thousands and thousands of
jobs.
The Bankers and Corporations and Greenies play our government like a violin.
.
.
GM as mismanaged company.
Bankrupt and reorganized...still alive!
Mismanaged by Obama's handpicked henchmen and getting ready to
file bankruptcy again you stupid ass.
# As soon as Obama loses the election, GM will start the process of making
# it look like they are going bankrupt the accountants will set to work to
# show them as failing, rather than faking this facade of actually making
# money.....
GM already appears to be edging toward bankruptcy. And of course, Sid
will crow about all the money that GM paid back to the government.
The fly in that ointment is that GM got that money from TARP. The
took money from one pocket of government, put it in a different
government pocket and claimed success.
# We could have done nothing.
# Killed the local economy.
That's the Obama plan for COAL.....
Kill the local coal electric and also the coal miners jobs.
Why is good for GM UNION workers to have a job and bad for coal miners
to have a job?
Cars will eventually run on biofuel or solar.
Bret Cahill
You mean something on wheels, Union auto workers know almost nothing of
solar or bio fuel.....


Their expertise isn't vital to building a vehicle that isn't any longer
a car, but is now an electric Liberal Weenie Wagon.
--
*Rumination*
#62 - Democrats have created a Matrix to convince you life is good....
you might call them the Liberal-Socialist "MACHINE" that has created
your matrix.
BeamMeUpScotty
2012-09-27 19:42:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bret Cahill
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Wayne
Post by Wayne
Post by Anonymous
Post by Sid9
Post by unknown
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
Auto production in states that didn't support was eliminated, such as Tn
and thousands of jobs.
The entire Saturn and Pontiac lines were eliminated. Some nerds didn't
like the idea, of affordable 2 seat convertibles, too dangerous for
Americans and eliminating the cheaper lines. Thousands and thousands of
jobs.
The Bankers and Corporations and Greenies play our government like a violin.
.
.
GM as mismanaged company.
Bankrupt and reorganized...still alive!
Mismanaged by Obama's handpicked henchmen and getting ready to
file bankruptcy again you stupid ass.
# As soon as Obama loses the election, GM will start the process of making
# it look like they are going bankrupt the accountants will set to work to
# show them as failing, rather than faking this facade of actually making
# money.....
GM already appears to be edging toward bankruptcy. And of course, Sid
will crow about all the money that GM paid back to the government.
The fly in that ointment is that GM got that money from TARP. The
took money from one pocket of government, put it in a different
government pocket and claimed success.
# We could have done nothing.
# Killed the local economy.
That's the Obama plan for COAL.....
Kill the local coal electric and also the coal miners jobs.
Why is good for GM UNION workers to have a job and bad for coal miners
to have a job?
Cars will eventually run on biofuel or solar.
"Transports" (NOT cars) will eventually be built without UNION auto
workers.

That will be real progress.
--
*Rumination*
#11 - A little Liberalism like a little alcohol, can be a good thing but
when either of them take control, they become self destructive.
Wayne
2012-09-28 00:05:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Wayne
Post by Wayne
Post by Anonymous
Post by Sid9
Post by unknown
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
Auto production in states that didn't support was eliminated, such as Tn
and thousands of jobs.
The entire Saturn and Pontiac lines were eliminated. Some nerds didn't
like the idea, of affordable 2 seat convertibles, too dangerous for
Americans and eliminating the cheaper lines. Thousands and thousands of
jobs.
The Bankers and Corporations and Greenies play our government like a violin.
.
.
GM as mismanaged company.
Bankrupt and reorganized...still alive!
Mismanaged by Obama's handpicked henchmen and getting ready to
file bankruptcy again you stupid ass.
# As soon as Obama loses the election, GM will start the process of making
# it look like they are going bankrupt the accountants will set to work to
# show them as failing, rather than faking this facade of actually making
# money.....
GM already appears to be edging toward bankruptcy. And of course, Sid
will crow about all the money that GM paid back to the government.
The fly in that ointment is that GM got that money from TARP. The
took money from one pocket of government, put it in a different
government pocket and claimed success.
# We could have done nothing.
# Killed the local economy.
That's the Obama plan for COAL.....
Kill the local coal electric and also the coal miners jobs.
Why is good for GM UNION workers to have a job and bad for coal miners
to have a job?
# Cars will eventually run on biofuel or solar.

Already cars run on coal and corn. Wonder if the gummint can find more
expensive alternatives.
Sid9
2012-09-28 00:48:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wayne
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Wayne
Post by Wayne
Post by Anonymous
Post by Sid9
Post by unknown
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
Auto production in states that didn't support was eliminated, such as Tn
and thousands of jobs.
The entire Saturn and Pontiac lines were eliminated. Some nerds didn't
like the idea, of affordable 2 seat convertibles, too dangerous for
Americans and eliminating the cheaper lines. Thousands and thousands of
jobs.
The Bankers and Corporations and Greenies play our government like
a
violin.
.
.
GM as mismanaged company.
Bankrupt and reorganized...still alive!
Mismanaged by Obama's handpicked henchmen and getting ready to
file bankruptcy again you stupid ass.
# As soon as Obama loses the election, GM will start the process of making
# it look like they are going bankrupt the accountants will set to work to
# show them as failing, rather than faking this facade of actually making
# money.....
GM already appears to be edging toward bankruptcy. And of course, Sid
will crow about all the money that GM paid back to the government.
The fly in that ointment is that GM got that money from TARP. The
took money from one pocket of government, put it in a different
government pocket and claimed success.
# We could have done nothing.
# Killed the local economy.
That's the Obama plan for COAL.....
Kill the local coal electric and also the coal miners jobs.
Why is good for GM UNION workers to have a job and bad for coal miners
to have a job?
# Cars will eventually run on biofuel or solar.
Already cars run on coal and corn. Wonder if the gummint can find more
expensive alternatives.
Who taught you hate our government?
Our elected government, that is.
Was it St Reagan, the man who started the hate government movement?
...or did come elsewhere?
Orval Fairbairn
2012-09-28 04:06:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sid9
Post by Wayne
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Wayne
Post by Wayne
Post by Anonymous
Post by Sid9
Post by unknown
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
Auto production in states that didn't support was eliminated, such as Tn
and thousands of jobs.
The entire Saturn and Pontiac lines were eliminated. Some nerds didn't
like the idea, of affordable 2 seat convertibles, too dangerous for
Americans and eliminating the cheaper lines. Thousands and thousands of
jobs.
The Bankers and Corporations and Greenies play our government like
a
violin.
.
.
GM as mismanaged company.
Bankrupt and reorganized...still alive!
Mismanaged by Obama's handpicked henchmen and getting ready to
file bankruptcy again you stupid ass.
# As soon as Obama loses the election, GM will start the process of making
# it look like they are going bankrupt the accountants will set to work to
# show them as failing, rather than faking this facade of actually making
# money.....
GM already appears to be edging toward bankruptcy. And of course, Sid
will crow about all the money that GM paid back to the government.
The fly in that ointment is that GM got that money from TARP. The
took money from one pocket of government, put it in a different
government pocket and claimed success.
# We could have done nothing.
# Killed the local economy.
That's the Obama plan for COAL.....
Kill the local coal electric and also the coal miners jobs.
Why is good for GM UNION workers to have a job and bad for coal miners
to have a job?
# Cars will eventually run on biofuel or solar.
Already cars run on coal and corn. Wonder if the gummint can find more
expensive alternatives.
Who taught you hate our government?
Our elected government, that is.
Was it St Reagan, the man who started the hate government movement?
...or did come elsewhere?
You and others like you did. You taught us that all-oppressive
Government is your ideal.
Nickname unavailable
2012-09-28 05:21:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wayne
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Wayne
Post by Wayne
Post by Anonymous
Post by Sid9
Post by unknown
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
Auto production in states that didn't support was eliminated, such as Tn
and thousands of jobs.
The entire Saturn and Pontiac lines were eliminated. Some nerds didn't
like the idea, of affordable 2 seat convertibles, too dangerous for
Americans and eliminating the cheaper lines. Thousands and thousands of
jobs.
The Bankers and Corporations and Greenies play our government like a
violin.
.
.
GM as mismanaged company.
Bankrupt and reorganized...still alive!
Mismanaged by Obama's handpicked henchmen and getting ready to
file bankruptcy again you stupid ass.
# As soon as Obama loses the election, GM will start the process of making
# it look like they are going bankrupt the accountants will set to work to
# show them as failing, rather than faking this facade of actually making
# money.....
GM already appears to be edging toward bankruptcy.  And of course, Sid
will crow about all the money that GM paid back to the government.
The fly in that ointment is that GM got that money from TARP.  The
took money from one pocket of government, put it in a different
government pocket and claimed success.
# We could have done nothing.
# Killed the local economy.
That's the Obama plan for COAL.....
Kill the local coal electric and also the coal miners jobs.
Why is good for GM UNION workers to have a job and bad for coal miners
to have a job?
# Cars will eventually run on biofuel or solar.
Already cars run on coal and corn.  Wonder if the gummint can find more
expensive alternatives.
man are you ever stupid. how do you think america became a
manufacturing and innovative power house, geesh.


http://www.nasa.gov/centers/glenn/news/pressrel/2011/11-068_automotive.html

NASA News


Katherine K. Martin
Media Relations Office
216-433-2406
***@grc.nasa.gov
October 13, 2011

MEDIA ADVISORY : 11-068


NASA Technologies Highlighted at Automotive Industry Workshop


CLEVELAND -- Industry executives from across the nation have been
invited to NASA's Glenn Research Center on Oct. 27 for a workshop that
will include more than 30 exhibits demonstrating the latest NASA
technologies that could benefit the automotive industry.

The workshop will be hosted by MAGNET (The Manufacturing Advocacy &
Growth Network in Cleveland) and the Center for Automotive Research at
The Ohio State University.

During the workshop, to be held in Glenn's aircraft hangar from 9 a.m.
to 5 p.m., attendees will learn about technologies such as advanced
materials, nanotechnology, innovative extreme environment sensors,
power generation and intelligent control.

The goal of the workshop is to inform the automotive industry about
cutting edge technologies that could be leveraged to improve
automobile performance, efficiency and manufacturing processes.
Attendees will have the opportunity to have one-on-one conversations
with NASA innovators to discuss their near term technology needs and
how NASA's research and development could help address their future
technology requirements.

Specialists will also be on hand to discuss the process of working
with NASA, partnership opportunities and how intellectual property and
other concerns they may have are handled.

Additionally, exhibits from local universities including the Cleveland
Institute of Art, as well as NASA research aircraft and space hardware
will be on display at the workshop.

News media wishing to attend this event should contact Katherine
Martin or the Media Relations Office at 216-433-2901 by 4:30 p.m. on
October 26 in order to be cleared through security.
BeamMeUpScotty
2012-09-28 14:53:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nickname unavailable
Post by Wayne
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Wayne
Post by Wayne
Post by Anonymous
Post by Sid9
Post by unknown
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
Auto production in states that didn't support was eliminated, such as Tn
and thousands of jobs.
The entire Saturn and Pontiac lines were eliminated. Some nerds didn't
like the idea, of affordable 2 seat convertibles, too dangerous for
Americans and eliminating the cheaper lines. Thousands and thousands of
jobs.
The Bankers and Corporations and Greenies play our government like a violin.
.
.
GM as mismanaged company.
Bankrupt and reorganized...still alive!
Mismanaged by Obama's handpicked henchmen and getting ready to
file bankruptcy again you stupid ass.
# As soon as Obama loses the election, GM will start the process of making
# it look like they are going bankrupt the accountants will set to work to
# show them as failing, rather than faking this facade of actually making
# money.....
GM already appears to be edging toward bankruptcy. And of course, Sid
will crow about all the money that GM paid back to the government.
The fly in that ointment is that GM got that money from TARP. The
took money from one pocket of government, put it in a different
government pocket and claimed success.
# We could have done nothing.
# Killed the local economy.
That's the Obama plan for COAL.....
Kill the local coal electric and also the coal miners jobs.
Why is good for GM UNION workers to have a job and bad for coal miners
to have a job?
# Cars will eventually run on biofuel or solar.
Already cars run on coal and corn. Wonder if the gummint can find more
expensive alternatives.
man are you ever stupid. how do you think america became a
manufacturing and innovative power house, geesh.
http://www.nasa.gov/centers/glenn/news/pressrel/2011/11-068_automotive.html
NASA News
Katherine K. Martin
Media Relations Office
216-433-2406
October 13, 2011
MEDIA ADVISORY : 11-068
NASA Technologies Highlighted at Automotive Industry Workshop
CLEVELAND -- Industry executives from across the nation have been
invited to NASA's Glenn Research Center on Oct. 27 for a workshop that
will include more than 30 exhibits demonstrating the latest NASA
technologies that could benefit the automotive industry.
The workshop will be hosted by MAGNET (The Manufacturing Advocacy &
Growth Network in Cleveland) and the Center for Automotive Research at
The Ohio State University.
Space shuttles blow up and Chevy trucks blow up..... NASA wastes
billions building useless hybrid vehicles and so does GM.


No one can afford a NASA rover vehicle and NO ONE can afford a GM rover
vehicle, they seem to be on the same track, maybe they can combine their
assets in a merger.
--
*Rumination*
#32 - Nothing scares a Socialist more than free people exercising their
freedoms.
Orval Fairbairn
2012-09-28 04:05:37 UTC
Permalink
In article
Post by Bret Cahill
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Wayne
Post by Wayne
Post by Anonymous
Post by Sid9
Post by unknown
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
Auto production in states that didn't support was eliminated, such as Tn
and thousands of jobs.
The entire Saturn and Pontiac lines were eliminated. Some nerds didn't
like the idea, of affordable 2 seat convertibles, too dangerous for
Americans and eliminating the cheaper lines. Thousands and thousands of
jobs.
The Bankers and Corporations and Greenies play our government like a
violin.
.
.
GM as mismanaged company.
Bankrupt and reorganized...still alive!
Mismanaged by Obama's handpicked henchmen and getting ready to
file bankruptcy again you stupid ass.
# As soon as Obama loses the election, GM will start the process of making
# it look like they are going bankrupt the accountants will set to work to
# show them as failing, rather than faking this facade of actually making
# money.....
GM already appears to be edging toward bankruptcy.  And of course, Sid
will crow about all the money that GM paid back to the government.
The fly in that ointment is that GM got that money from TARP.  The
took money from one pocket of government, put it in a different
government pocket and claimed success.
# We could have done nothing.
# Killed the local economy.
That's the Obama plan for COAL.....
Kill the local coal electric and also the coal miners jobs.
Why is good for GM UNION workers to have a job and bad for coal miners
to have a job?
Cars will eventually run on biofuel or solar.
Bret Cahill
They certainly won't run on the stuff Brett is smoking!
BeamMeUpScotty
2012-09-27 17:21:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wayne
Post by Wayne
Post by Anonymous
Post by Sid9
Post by unknown
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
Auto production in states that didn't support was eliminated, such as Tn
and thousands of jobs.
The entire Saturn and Pontiac lines were eliminated. Some nerds didn't
like the idea, of affordable 2 seat convertibles, too dangerous for
Americans and eliminating the cheaper lines. Thousands and
thousands of
jobs.
The Bankers and Corporations and Greenies play our government like a violin.
.
.
GM as mismanaged company.
Bankrupt and reorganized...still alive!
Mismanaged by Obama's handpicked henchmen and getting ready to
file bankruptcy again you stupid ass.
# As soon as Obama loses the election, GM will start the process of making
# it look like they are going bankrupt the accountants will set to work to
# show them as failing, rather than faking this facade of actually making
# money.....
GM already appears to be edging toward bankruptcy. And of course, Sid
will crow about all the money that GM paid back to the government.
The fly in that ointment is that GM got that money from TARP. The
took money from one pocket of government, put it in a different
government pocket and claimed success.
# We could have done nothing.
# Killed the local economy.
That's the Obama plan for COAL.....

Kill the local coal electric and also the coal miners jobs.


Why is it good for GM UNION workers to have a job and bad for coal
miners to have a job?
Nickname unavailable
2012-09-28 00:39:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sid9
Post by Wayne
Post by Anonymous
Post by Sid9
Post by unknown
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
Auto production in states that didn't support was eliminated, such as Tn
and thousands of jobs.
The entire Saturn and Pontiac lines were eliminated. Some nerds didn't
like the idea, of affordable 2 seat convertibles, too dangerous for
Americans and eliminating the cheaper lines. Thousands and thousands of
jobs.
The Bankers and Corporations and Greenies play our government like a violin.
.
.
GM as mismanaged company.
Bankrupt and reorganized...still alive!
Mismanaged by Obama's handpicked henchmen and getting ready to
file bankruptcy again you stupid ass.
# As soon as Obama loses the election, GM will start the process of making
# it look like they are going bankrupt the accountants will set to work to
# show them as failing, rather than faking this facade of actually making
# money.....
GM already appears to be edging toward bankruptcy.  And of course, Sid
will crow about all the money that GM paid back to the government.
The fly in that ointment is that GM got that money from TARP.  The took
money from one pocket of government, put it in a different government
pocket and claimed success.
We could have done nothing.
Killed the local economy.
Stopped GM workers from paying taxes.
Both the private and the public sectors of the economy would have been
devastated.
We create governments to ameliorate these problems.
You would have anarchy as your design for living
he reads a magazine called "REASON" i kid you not.
BeamMeUpScotty
2012-09-27 00:51:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wayne
Post by Anonymous
Post by Sid9
Post by unknown
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
Auto production in states that didn't support was eliminated, such as Tn
and thousands of jobs.
The entire Saturn and Pontiac lines were eliminated. Some nerds didn't
like the idea, of affordable 2 seat convertibles, too dangerous for
Americans and eliminating the cheaper lines. Thousands and thousands of
jobs.
The Bankers and Corporations and Greenies play our government like a violin.
.
.
GM as mismanaged company.
Bankrupt and reorganized...still alive!
Mismanaged by Obama's handpicked henchmen and getting ready to
file bankruptcy again you stupid ass.
# As soon as Obama loses the election, GM will start the process of making
# it look like they are going bankrupt the accountants will set to work to
# show them as failing, rather than faking this facade of actually making
# money.....
GM already appears to be edging toward bankruptcy. And of course, Sid
will crow about all the money that GM paid back to the government.
The fly in that ointment is that GM got that money from TARP. The took
money from one pocket of government, put it in a different government
pocket and claimed success.
Tax payer money was loaned to GM and then tax payer money was given to
GM's customers to buy cars so the profit that GM made was from taxpayers
and they paid off very little of the tax payer loans with tax payer
funded money from the (cash for clunkers) "profits".

I say "profits" because it was really just an inventory clearance to
get the cash out of all the aging and unwanted inventory that GM was
floor-planning. They really didn't do much more than recoup their cash
and $4000 of every car was taxpayer dollars so the taxpayers paid the
Auto workers and helped downsize the ridiculously wasteful floor
planning that GM had stupidly maintained. And then Obama allowed GM to
borrow money from a private entity with taxpayers as a "signature" to
the loan, so Obama could do as you say and move money from their right
pocket to their left pocket and claim that the loans were being paid back.



The taxpayers got hosed coming and going on that Obama/Union Scam.
--
*Rumination*
#8 - It's NOT what you earn it's what you keep.
Nickname unavailable
2012-09-28 00:37:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wayne
Post by Anonymous
Post by Sid9
Post by unknown
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
Auto production in states that didn't support was eliminated, such as Tn
and thousands of jobs.
The entire Saturn and Pontiac lines were eliminated. Some nerds didn't
like the idea, of affordable 2 seat convertibles, too dangerous for
Americans and eliminating the cheaper lines. Thousands and thousands of
jobs.
The Bankers and Corporations and Greenies play our government like a violin.
.
.
GM as mismanaged company.
Bankrupt and reorganized...still alive!
Mismanaged by Obama's handpicked henchmen and getting ready to
file bankruptcy again you stupid ass.
# As soon as Obama loses the election, GM will start the process of making
# it look like they are going bankrupt the accountants will set to work to
# show them as failing, rather than faking this facade of actually making
# money.....
GM already appears to be edging toward bankruptcy.  And of course, Sid will
crow about all the money that GM paid back to the government.
The fly in that ointment is that GM got that money from TARP.  The took
money from one pocket of government, put it in a different government pocket
and claimed success.
tarp was bushs law. reagan bailed out detroit, as well as harley, its
the american thing to do to save production when the private sector
fails.
Nickname unavailable
2012-09-28 00:27:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Anonymous
Post by Sid9
Post by unknown
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
Auto production in states that didn't support was eliminated, such as Tn
and thousands of jobs.
The entire Saturn and Pontiac lines were eliminated. Some nerds didn't
like the idea, of affordable 2 seat convertibles, too dangerous for
Americans and eliminating the cheaper lines. Thousands and thousands of
jobs.
The Bankers and Corporations and Greenies play our government like a violin.
.
.
GM as mismanaged company.
Bankrupt and reorganized...still alive!
Mismanaged by Obama's handpicked henchmen and getting ready to
file bankruptcy again you stupid ass.
Obama has the financial acumen of a persimmon.
bushs trickle down chicanery blew a hole of $12.8 trillion lost in
estimated actual and avoided GDP/26 million lost Americans jobs/$19
trillion lost in household wealth:"CONSERVATIVES" want you to forget
2008
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bartlett-naylor/lehman-brohers-collapse...
Bartlett Naylor 
Expert on corporate governance, financial markets and
shareholder 
rights
Wall Street and the Cost of Forgetting 
Posted: 09/14/2012 5:43 pm
Wall Street wants America to forget September 15, 2008. 
That's
because outside events of violence, few dates have signified 
more
calamity than this fateful day. On that black Monday, Lehman 
Brothers
Holdings Inc. declared bankruptcy. This legal action revealed 
the
rotten core of the world's financial industry. Reckless mortgage
lending motivated by the bonus-driven securitization business left
Americans with $700 billion in collective mortgage debt beyond the
lost market value of their homes. Consumers swamped by this debt cut
other spending, factories were closed and layoffs were forced,
leading 
to still less consumer spending -- a vicious cycle that
became the 
Great Recession. 
Congressional and White House
investigations, books, movies and even 
songs have explored the
financial crash of 2008 and the resulting 
economic mayhem. The latest
damage tally comes from Better Markets: 
$12.8 trillion lost in
estimated actual and avoided GDP, 26 million 
lost Americans jobs, $19
trillion lost in household wealth. For 
context, if you received
$100,000 every second of every hour of every 
day, it would take three
years to amass $1 trillion. 
Less quantifiable are the darkened
futures of college graduates, 
eviscerated philanthropies less able to
fund worthy efforts such as 
finding climate change solutions, or the
spike in incidences of mental 
illness. 
Wall Street wants America to
forget September 15, 2008, because its 
captains and lieutenants earn
billions in personal lucre from the 
risky, speculative and
intentionally complex financial activities that 
led to the crash.
Brilliant minds have replaced the 3-5-3 bankers (pay 
depositors 3
percent, loan at 5 percent and hit the golf course at 3 
p.m.) And
these Wall Street wizards have made credit more expensive 
and
dangerous under the misrepresentation of "innovation." Four years
after its Chapter 11 filing, the absurd complexity of Lehman's
dealings, with 150,000 open derivatives transactions at the time of
bankruptcy, laid bare the casino nature of the nation's fourth
largest 
investment bank. 
Wall Street apologists tell another story
about the cause of the 
crash: Un-creditworthy home buyers lied on
their loan applications, 
securing funds that both inflated housing
prices generally and which 
they couldn't pay back except by flipping
into an ever escalating 
market. Really? Low-wage workers snuck $700
billion by the brightest 
minds of Wall Street? 
On top of this self-
serving fantasy, Wall Street proffers an even 
bolder fairy tale about
the burden of the critical Wall Street reforms 
passed into law in
2010. Industry's congressional friends claim that 
the Dodd-Frank Wall
Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act 
discourages lenders from
loaning to worthy businesses. That means they 
can't hire workers,
prolonging our economic malaise. Really? What 
about those consumers
buried in mortgage debt and unable to buy what 
business is selling?
Another new report from the International Monetary Fund and co-
authored by Brookings Institute scholar Douglas Elliot drives a stake
through this zombie argument. The new Dodd-Frank law will increase
lending rates by an amount as small as the smallest adjustment made
in 
Federal Reserve lending rates. Dwell on this: The cost of
preventing 
another $20 trillion-$40 trillion financial crash can be
financed with 
the smallest of decreases in Federal Reserve lending
rates. 
Remember September 15, 2008, and the regulations we need put
in place 
to protect us from a recurrence. Your job, your retirement
savings, 
even your psyche may depend on it.
Wayne
2012-09-26 15:59:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by unknown
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
Auto production in states that didn't support was eliminated, such as Tn
and thousands of jobs.
The entire Saturn and Pontiac lines were eliminated. Some nerds didn't
like the idea, of affordable 2 seat convertibles, too dangerous for
Americans and eliminating the cheaper lines. Thousands and thousands of
jobs.
The Bankers and Corporations and Greenies play our government like a violin.
.
.
# GM as mismanaged company.
# Bankrupt and reorganized...still alive!

Boy, you never stop drinking the Koolaid.
GM is not and never was bankrupt. It was nationalized, complete with
fucking over bond holders, who normally would be paid before other
creditors.
Nickname unavailable
2012-09-28 00:28:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wayne
Post by unknown
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
Auto production in states that didn't support was eliminated, such as Tn
and thousands of jobs.
The entire Saturn and Pontiac lines were eliminated. Some nerds didn't
like the idea, of affordable 2 seat convertibles, too dangerous for
Americans and eliminating the cheaper lines. Thousands and thousands of
jobs.
The Bankers and Corporations and Greenies play our government like a violin.
.
.
# GM as mismanaged company.
# Bankrupt and reorganized...still alive!
Boy, you never stop drinking the Koolaid.
GM is not and never was bankrupt.  It was nationalized, complete with
fucking over bond holders, who normally would be paid before other
creditors.
bond holders know the score. stock holders know the score, if they do
not, then they better not be in the financial markets.
Wayne
2012-09-28 00:33:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wayne
Post by unknown
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
Auto production in states that didn't support was eliminated, such as Tn
and thousands of jobs.
The entire Saturn and Pontiac lines were eliminated. Some nerds didn't
like the idea, of affordable 2 seat convertibles, too dangerous for
Americans and eliminating the cheaper lines. Thousands and thousands of
jobs.
The Bankers and Corporations and Greenies play our government like a violin.
.
.
# GM as mismanaged company.
# Bankrupt and reorganized...still alive!
Boy, you never stop drinking the Koolaid.
GM is not and never was bankrupt. It was nationalized, complete with
fucking over bond holders, who normally would be paid before other
creditors.
# bond holders know the score. stock holders know the score, if they do
# not, then they better not be in the financial markets.

By law, stock holders and bond holders have legal rights during Chapter 11.
The problem with GM is that the Dictator in Chief unilaterally violated
contract law.
Sid9
2012-09-28 01:06:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wayne
Post by Wayne
Post by unknown
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
Auto production in states that didn't support was eliminated, such as Tn
and thousands of jobs.
The entire Saturn and Pontiac lines were eliminated. Some nerds didn't
like the idea, of affordable 2 seat convertibles, too dangerous for
Americans and eliminating the cheaper lines. Thousands and thousands of
jobs.
The Bankers and Corporations and Greenies play our government like a violin.
.
.
# GM as mismanaged company.
# Bankrupt and reorganized...still alive!
Boy, you never stop drinking the Koolaid.
GM is not and never was bankrupt. It was nationalized, complete with
fucking over bond holders, who normally would be paid before other
creditors.
# bond holders know the score. stock holders know the score, if they do
# not, then they better not be in the financial markets.
By law, stock holders and bond holders have legal rights during Chapter 11.
The problem with GM is that the Dictator in Chief unilaterally violated
contract law.
.
.
,
Stockholders and bond holder would have lost all in a bankruptcy, too.
The president's administration did the best job possible considering the
circumstances.
Those who buy stocks and bond are very well aware of the risks.


Who taught you to hate America?
Wayne
2012-09-28 17:01:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wayne
Post by Wayne
Post by unknown
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
Auto production in states that didn't support was eliminated, such as Tn
and thousands of jobs.
The entire Saturn and Pontiac lines were eliminated. Some nerds didn't
like the idea, of affordable 2 seat convertibles, too dangerous for
Americans and eliminating the cheaper lines. Thousands and thousands of
jobs.
The Bankers and Corporations and Greenies play our government like a violin.
.
.
# GM as mismanaged company.
# Bankrupt and reorganized...still alive!
Boy, you never stop drinking the Koolaid.
GM is not and never was bankrupt. It was nationalized, complete with
fucking over bond holders, who normally would be paid before other
creditors.
# bond holders know the score. stock holders know the score, if they do
# not, then they better not be in the financial markets.
By law, stock holders and bond holders have legal rights during Chapter 11.
The problem with GM is that the Dictator in Chief unilaterally violated
contract law.
.
.
,
# Stockholders and bond holder would have lost all in a bankruptcy, too.
# The president's administration did the best job possible considering the
# circumstances.
# Those who buy stocks and bond are very well aware of the risks.

Sid, if you don't understand the implications of Chapter 11 in relation to
stocks and bonds, vs some perverted version of it....
then it's no wonder you are in the 49%.
Nickname unavailable
2012-09-28 17:53:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wayne
Post by Wayne
Post by unknown
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
Auto production in states that didn't support was eliminated, such as Tn
and thousands of jobs.
The entire Saturn and Pontiac lines were eliminated. Some nerds didn't
like the idea, of affordable 2 seat convertibles, too dangerous for
Americans and eliminating the cheaper lines. Thousands and thousands of
jobs.
The Bankers and Corporations and Greenies play our government like a violin.
.
.
# GM as mismanaged company.
# Bankrupt and reorganized...still alive!
Boy, you never stop drinking the Koolaid.
GM is not and never was bankrupt.  It was nationalized, complete with
fucking over bond holders, who normally would be paid before other
creditors.
#  bond holders know the score. stock holders know the score, if they do
# not, then they better not be in the financial markets.
By law, stock holders and bond holders have legal rights during Chapter 11.
The problem with GM is that the Dictator in Chief unilaterally violated
contract law.
.
.
,
# Stockholders and bond holder would have lost all in a bankruptcy, too.
# The president's administration did the best job possible considering the
# circumstances.
# Those who buy stocks and bond are very well aware of the risks.
Sid, if you don't understand the implications of Chapter 11 in relation to
stocks and bonds, vs some perverted version of it....
then it's no wonder you are in the 49%.
your ignorance is appalling. there are many companies going this
route. that left wing anti-business Barron's even advocated for it.


http://seekingalpha.com/article/108381-pre-packaged-bankruptcy-is-gm-s-only-option-barron-s



Pre-packaged Bankruptcy Is GM's Only Option - Barron's
November 29, 2008  | 50 comments by: SA Editor Eli Hoffmann  | 
includes: F, GM, HMC, TM


Despite protestations from G.M.'s (GM) brass, bankruptcy may indeed be
its best option, Barron's says. The dying automaker would need $100B
to survive through 2009 in its current form - a massive sum it's
unlikely to see from Congress, which is wary of throwing money at what
many see as a flawed business model.

Mind you, a traditional Chapter 11 filing could quickly slide into
Chapter 7 bankruptcy if GM (or Chrysler or Ford (F) a few months down
the road) can't find anyone to lend them the money to keep operations
running. That's why Barron's advocates a "pre-packaged bankruptcy" -
in which a company enters bankruptcy protection with almost all of its
financing in place - in this case backed by the government for a year
or so. "In that time, and under the protection of the court, GM could
begin to restructure its business with a much higher probability of
long-term survival," Mark Bane, co-head of bankruptcy operations at
the law firm of Ropes & Gray, says.
This would go a long way toward reassuring car buyers who might
otherwise not want to purchase a vehicle from a bankrupt firm, for
fear of not having warranties honored or parts being available - one
of Detroit's arguments against Chapter 11. The plan needn't even be
called a bankruptcy. Term it a financed reorganization, or whatever
else might make it sound more palatable to GM's board.
Assuming they go down this road, what's the end of the story? To
survive long-term, the Big Three will have to find a way to cut costs
(duh), figure out how to make cars that Americans like, and shrink
their bloated operations and dealer networks. Consider that U.S.
automakers pay employees over $70/hour, compared with the $40/hour
Toyota (TM) and Honda (HMC) pay their non-union employees.
GM would probably have to cut its 60K hourly-workers to about half of
that, cut pay across the spectrum, close half of its plants, and wind
down unprofitable brands (Saab, Pontiac, Hummer, GMC). Ford would have
to say goodbye to Mercury. And Chrysler would likely have to close
down everything except Jeep and its minivans - making it a likely
takeover target for one of the other two, or a foreign carmaker.
Sid9
2012-09-28 18:34:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wayne
Post by Wayne
Post by Wayne
Post by unknown
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
Auto production in states that didn't support was eliminated, such as Tn
and thousands of jobs.
The entire Saturn and Pontiac lines were eliminated. Some nerds didn't
like the idea, of affordable 2 seat convertibles, too dangerous for
Americans and eliminating the cheaper lines. Thousands and thousands of
jobs.
The Bankers and Corporations and Greenies play our government like a violin.
.
.
# GM as mismanaged company.
# Bankrupt and reorganized...still alive!
Boy, you never stop drinking the Koolaid.
GM is not and never was bankrupt. It was nationalized, complete with
fucking over bond holders, who normally would be paid before other
creditors.
# bond holders know the score. stock holders know the score, if they do
# not, then they better not be in the financial markets.
By law, stock holders and bond holders have legal rights during Chapter 11.
The problem with GM is that the Dictator in Chief unilaterally violated
contract law.
.
.
,
# Stockholders and bond holder would have lost all in a bankruptcy, too.
# The president's administration did the best job possible considering the
# circumstances.
# Those who buy stocks and bond are very well aware of the risks.
Sid, if you don't understand the implications of Chapter 11 in relation to
stocks and bonds, vs some perverted version of it....
then it's no wonder you are in the 49%.
My GM stock became worthless without regard to how the reorganization was
carried out.
I knew it. I faced up to it.
The company has been poorly managed for decades.
This didn't happen overnight.

HOW GM was reorganized is meaningless...the fact is they were and they
survive....bankruptcy could very well have meant Chapter nine....a much
worse situation
BeamMeUpScotty
2012-09-28 19:11:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sid9
Post by Wayne
Post by Wayne
Post by unknown
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
Auto production in states that didn't support was eliminated, such
as > Tn
Post by unknown
and thousands of jobs.
The entire Saturn and Pontiac lines were eliminated. Some nerds
didn't
Post by unknown
like the idea, of affordable 2 seat convertibles, too dangerous for
Americans and eliminating the cheaper lines. Thousands and
thousands > of
Post by unknown
jobs.
The Bankers and Corporations and Greenies play our government like a violin.
.
.
# GM as mismanaged company.
# Bankrupt and reorganized...still alive!
Boy, you never stop drinking the Koolaid.
GM is not and never was bankrupt. It was nationalized, complete with
fucking over bond holders, who normally would be paid before other
creditors.
# bond holders know the score. stock holders know the score, if they do
# not, then they better not be in the financial markets.
By law, stock holders and bond holders have legal rights during Chapter 11.
The problem with GM is that the Dictator in Chief unilaterally
violated contract law.
.
.
,
# Stockholders and bond holder would have lost all in a bankruptcy, too.
# The president's administration did the best job possible considering the
# circumstances.
# Those who buy stocks and bond are very well aware of the risks.
Sid, if you don't understand the implications of Chapter 11 in
relation to stocks and bonds, vs some perverted version of it....
then it's no wonder you are in the 49%.
My GM stock became worthless without regard to how the reorganization
was carried out.
I knew it. I faced up to it.
The company has been poorly managed for decades.
This didn't happen overnight.
HOW GM was reorganized is meaningless...the fact is they were and they
survive....bankruptcy could very well have meant Chapter nine....a much
worse situation
Worse for whom?



NOT worse for creditors that were raped by Obama.


NOT worse for Stock holders that often lose no matter what.


NOT worse for Management that usually gets canned when a company is in
bankruptcy.


Now we get to the nitty-gritty, it would be worse for the UNIONS and
union workers.


So the laws were ignored and the constitution shit all over so the
Unions could be propped up?



Why claim to be a Nation of laws living under the rule of law, when the
chief law enforcement of the United States ignores the laws. Just admit
that we are now a Nation of ANARCHY, and that's why people don't risk
their money because anarchy is just too unpredictable, just like Obama's
decisions that violate the laws and the constitution. We just don't
have a clue what will happen next because Obama has no respect or regard
for the constitution or our laws.
--
*Rumination*
#27 - Liberalism is an intellectual blackhole.
pyotr filipivich
2012-09-29 04:28:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Why claim to be a Nation of laws living under the rule of law, when the
chief law enforcement of the United States ignores the laws. Just admit
that we are now a Nation of ANARCHY, and that's why people don't risk
their money because anarchy is just too unpredictable, just like Obama's
decisions that violate the laws and the constitution. We just don't
have a clue what will happen next because Obama has no respect or regard
for the constitution or our laws.
"We are today in the most literal sense a lawless society, for our law
has ceased to be law and become instead its opposite -- mere force at
the disposal of whoever is at the controls."
Charles A. Reich,
_Peters Quotations_, (c) 1977.
Orval Fairbairn
2012-09-28 19:54:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sid9
Post by Wayne
Post by Wayne
Post by Wayne
Post by unknown
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
Auto production in states that didn't support was eliminated, such as Tn
and thousands of jobs.
The entire Saturn and Pontiac lines were eliminated. Some nerds didn't
like the idea, of affordable 2 seat convertibles, too dangerous for
Americans and eliminating the cheaper lines. Thousands and thousands of
jobs.
The Bankers and Corporations and Greenies play our government like a violin.
.
.
# GM as mismanaged company.
# Bankrupt and reorganized...still alive!
Boy, you never stop drinking the Koolaid.
GM is not and never was bankrupt. It was nationalized, complete with
fucking over bond holders, who normally would be paid before other
creditors.
# bond holders know the score. stock holders know the score, if they do
# not, then they better not be in the financial markets.
By law, stock holders and bond holders have legal rights during Chapter 11.
The problem with GM is that the Dictator in Chief unilaterally violated
contract law.
.
.
,
# Stockholders and bond holder would have lost all in a bankruptcy, too.
# The president's administration did the best job possible considering the
# circumstances.
# Those who buy stocks and bond are very well aware of the risks.
Sid, if you don't understand the implications of Chapter 11 in relation to
stocks and bonds, vs some perverted version of it....
then it's no wonder you are in the 49%.
My GM stock became worthless without regard to how the reorganization was
carried out.
I knew it. I faced up to it.
The company has been poorly managed for decades.
This didn't happen overnight.
HOW GM was reorganized is meaningless...the fact is they were and they
survive....bankruptcy could very well have meant Chapter nine....a much
worse situation
I never bought GM stock because I knew better. :-)
Nickname unavailable
2012-09-28 20:16:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Post by Sid9
Post by Wayne
Post by Wayne
Post by unknown
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
Auto production in states that didn't support was eliminated, such as Tn
and thousands of jobs.
The entire Saturn and Pontiac lines were eliminated. Some nerds didn't
like the idea, of affordable 2 seat convertibles, too dangerous for
Americans and eliminating the cheaper lines. Thousands and thousands of
jobs.
The Bankers and Corporations and Greenies play our government like a
violin.
.
.
# GM as mismanaged company.
# Bankrupt and reorganized...still alive!
Boy, you never stop drinking the Koolaid.
GM is not and never was bankrupt.  It was nationalized, complete with
fucking over bond holders, who normally would be paid before other
creditors.
#  bond holders know the score. stock holders know the score, if they do
# not, then they better not be in the financial markets.
By law, stock holders and bond holders have legal rights during Chapter 11.
The problem with GM is that the Dictator in Chief unilaterally violated
contract law.
.
.
,
# Stockholders and bond holder would have lost all in a bankruptcy, too.
# The president's administration did the best job possible considering the
# circumstances.
# Those who buy stocks and bond are very well aware of the risks.
Sid, if you don't understand the implications of Chapter 11 in relation to
stocks and bonds, vs some perverted version of it....
then it's no wonder you are in the 49%.
My GM stock became worthless without regard to how the reorganization was
carried out.
I knew it. I faced up to it.
The company has been poorly managed for decades.
This didn't happen overnight.
HOW GM was reorganized is meaningless...the fact is they were and they
survive....bankruptcy could very well have meant Chapter nine....a much
worse situation
I never bought GM stock because I knew better. :-)
i am glad that you understood how poorly private sector companies can
be run:))))
Orval Fairbairn
2012-09-29 01:55:16 UTC
Permalink
In article
Post by Nickname unavailable
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Post by Sid9
Post by Wayne
Post by Wayne
Post by unknown
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
Auto production in states that didn't support was eliminated, such
as
Tn
and thousands of jobs.
The entire Saturn and Pontiac lines were eliminated. Some nerds didn't
like the idea, of affordable 2 seat convertibles, too dangerous for
Americans and eliminating the cheaper lines. Thousands and
thousands
of
jobs.
The Bankers and Corporations and Greenies play our government like a
violin.
.
.
# GM as mismanaged company.
# Bankrupt and reorganized...still alive!
Boy, you never stop drinking the Koolaid.
GM is not and never was bankrupt.  It was nationalized, complete with
fucking over bond holders, who normally would be paid before other
creditors.
#  bond holders know the score. stock holders know the score, if they do
# not, then they better not be in the financial markets.
By law, stock holders and bond holders have legal rights during
Chapter
11.
The problem with GM is that the Dictator in Chief unilaterally violated
contract law.
.
.
,
# Stockholders and bond holder would have lost all in a bankruptcy, too.
# The president's administration did the best job possible considering the
# circumstances.
# Those who buy stocks and bond are very well aware of the risks.
Sid, if you don't understand the implications of Chapter 11 in relation to
stocks and bonds, vs some perverted version of it....
then it's no wonder you are in the 49%.
My GM stock became worthless without regard to how the reorganization was
carried out.
I knew it. I faced up to it.
The company has been poorly managed for decades.
This didn't happen overnight.
HOW GM was reorganized is meaningless...the fact is they were and they
survive....bankruptcy could very well have meant Chapter nine....a much
worse situation
I never bought GM stock because I knew better. :-)
i am glad that you understood how poorly private sector companies can
be run:))))
I don't buy government bonds, either! ;-)

If offered state or munis -- especially in California, I would not walk
away -- I would RUN!
Nickname unavailable
2012-09-29 04:16:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Orval Fairbairn
In article
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Post by Sid9
Post by Wayne
Post by Wayne
Post by unknown
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
Auto production in states that didn't support was eliminated, such
as
Tn
and thousands of jobs.
The entire Saturn and Pontiac lines were eliminated. Some nerds
didn't
like the idea, of affordable 2 seat convertibles, too dangerous for
Americans and eliminating the cheaper lines. Thousands and
thousands
of
jobs.
The Bankers and Corporations and Greenies play our government like
a
violin.
.
.
# GM as mismanaged company.
# Bankrupt and reorganized...still alive!
Boy, you never stop drinking the Koolaid.
GM is not and never was bankrupt. It was nationalized, complete with
fucking over bond holders, who normally would be paid before other
creditors.
# bond holders know the score. stock holders know the score, if they
do
# not, then they better not be in the financial markets.
By law, stock holders and bond holders have legal rights during
Chapter
11.
The problem with GM is that the Dictator in Chief unilaterally violated
contract law.
.
.
,
# Stockholders and bond holder would have lost all in a bankruptcy, too.
# The president's administration did the best job possible considering the
# circumstances.
# Those who buy stocks and bond are very well aware of the risks.
Sid, if you don't understand the implications of Chapter 11 in relation to
stocks and bonds, vs some perverted version of it....
then it's no wonder you are in the 49%.
My GM stock became worthless without regard to how the reorganization was
carried out.
I knew it. I faced up to it.
The company has been poorly managed for decades.
This didn't happen overnight.
HOW GM was reorganized is meaningless...the fact is they were and they
survive....bankruptcy could very well have meant Chapter nine....a much
worse situation
I never bought GM stock because I knew better. :-)
 i am glad that you understood how poorly private sector companies can
be run:))))
I don't buy government bonds, either! ;-)
boy, are you missing out. i was laughed at a few years ago by
"CONSERVATIVES" when i said i could not wait for treasuries to hit 4%,
it was a time when "THE CONSERVATIVES" were barking and braying we
were going into hyper-inflation. it scared people, and the interest
premium rose.
i knew better, being a student of keynes/galbraith, and the new deal,
i knew we were heading for deflation, and i was right. i get 4% year
in, year out, whilst most conservatives try to manipulate things to
get a return.
Post by Orval Fairbairn
If offered state or munis -- especially in California, I would not walk
away -- I would RUN!
californmia is the birthplace of reaganism, and they are reaping that
premium right now:)))))
Orval Fairbairn
2012-09-29 21:23:38 UTC
Permalink
In article
Post by Nickname unavailable
Post by Orval Fairbairn
In article
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Post by Sid9
Post by Wayne
m...
Post by Wayne
Post by unknown
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
Auto production in states that didn't support was eliminated,
such
as
Tn
and thousands of jobs.
The entire Saturn and Pontiac lines were eliminated. Some nerds
didn't
like the idea, of affordable 2 seat convertibles, too dangerous
for
Americans and eliminating the cheaper lines. Thousands and
thousands
of
jobs.
The Bankers and Corporations and Greenies play our government
like
a
violin.
.
.
# GM as mismanaged company.
# Bankrupt and reorganized...still alive!
Boy, you never stop drinking the Koolaid.
GM is not and never was bankrupt. It was nationalized, complete
with
fucking over bond holders, who normally would be paid before other
creditors.
# bond holders know the score. stock holders know the score, if they
do
# not, then they better not be in the financial markets.
By law, stock holders and bond holders have legal rights during
Chapter
11.
The problem with GM is that the Dictator in Chief unilaterally
violated
contract law.
.
.
,
# Stockholders and bond holder would have lost all in a bankruptcy,
too.
# The president's administration did the best job possible
considering
the
# circumstances.
# Those who buy stocks and bond are very well aware of the risks.
Sid, if you don't understand the implications of Chapter 11 in
relation
to
stocks and bonds, vs some perverted version of it....
then it's no wonder you are in the 49%.
My GM stock became worthless without regard to how the reorganization was
carried out.
I knew it. I faced up to it.
The company has been poorly managed for decades.
This didn't happen overnight.
HOW GM was reorganized is meaningless...the fact is they were and they
survive....bankruptcy could very well have meant Chapter nine....a much
worse situation
I never bought GM stock because I knew better. :-)
 i am glad that you understood how poorly private sector companies can
be run:))))
I don't buy government bonds, either! ;-)
boy, are you missing out. i was laughed at a few years ago by
"CONSERVATIVES" when i said i could not wait for treasuries to hit 4%,
it was a time when "THE CONSERVATIVES" were barking and braying we
were going into hyper-inflation. it scared people, and the interest
premium rose.
i knew better, being a student of keynes/galbraith, and the new deal,
i knew we were heading for deflation, and i was right. i get 4% year
in, year out, whilst most conservatives try to manipulate things to
get a return.
Post by Orval Fairbairn
If offered state or munis -- especially in California, I would not walk
away -- I would RUN!
californmia is the birthplace of reaganism, and they are reaping that
premium right now:)))))
I buy stocks -- Apple is among them -- and I purchased it for about
$12/share. I would say that my return is somewhat better than your 4%
government bonds. ;-)
Nickname unavailable
2012-09-29 23:36:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Orval Fairbairn
In article
Post by Orval Fairbairn
In article
Post by Orval Fairbairn
Post by Sid9
Post by Wayne
m...
Post by Wayne
Post by unknown
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
Auto production in states that didn't support was eliminated,
such
as
Tn
and thousands of jobs.
The entire Saturn and Pontiac lines were eliminated. Some nerds
didn't
like the idea, of affordable 2 seat convertibles, too dangerous
for
Americans and eliminating the cheaper lines. Thousands and
thousands
of
jobs.
The Bankers and Corporations and Greenies play our government
like
a
violin.
.
.
# GM as mismanaged company.
# Bankrupt and reorganized...still alive!
Boy, you never stop drinking the Koolaid.
GM is not and never was bankrupt. It was nationalized, complete
with
fucking over bond holders, who normally would be paid before
other
creditors.
# bond holders know the score. stock holders know the score, if
they
do
# not, then they better not be in the financial markets.
By law, stock holders and bond holders have legal rights during
Chapter
11.
The problem with GM is that the Dictator in Chief unilaterally
violated
contract law.
.
.
,
# Stockholders and bond holder would have lost all in a bankruptcy,
too.
# The president's administration did the best job possible
considering
the
# circumstances.
# Those who buy stocks and bond are very well aware of the risks.
Sid, if you don't understand the implications of Chapter 11 in
relation
to
stocks and bonds, vs some perverted version of it....
then it's no wonder you are in the 49%.
My GM stock became worthless without regard to how the reorganization
was
carried out.
I knew it. I faced up to it.
The company has been poorly managed for decades.
This didn't happen overnight.
HOW GM was reorganized is meaningless...the fact is they were and they
survive....bankruptcy could very well have meant Chapter nine....a much
worse situation
I never bought GM stock because I knew better. :-)
 i am glad that you understood how poorly private sector companies can
be run:))))
I don't buy government bonds, either! ;-)
 boy, are you missing out. i was laughed at a few years ago by
"CONSERVATIVES" when i said i could not wait for treasuries to hit 4%,
it was a time when "THE CONSERVATIVES" were barking and braying we
were going into hyper-inflation. it scared people, and the interest
premium rose.
 i knew better, being a student of keynes/galbraith, and the new deal,
i knew we were heading for deflation, and i was right. i get 4% year
in, year out, whilst most conservatives try to manipulate things to
get a return.
Post by Orval Fairbairn
If offered state or munis -- especially in California, I would not walk
away -- I would RUN!
 californmia is the birthplace of reaganism, and they are reaping that
premium right now:)))))
I buy stocks -- Apple is among them -- and I purchased it for about
$12/share. I would say that my return is somewhat better than your 4%
government bonds. ;-)
demand is wage driven, gravity always takes hold. in a deflating
economy, most assets are way over priced, and most holders of over
priced assets are forced into selling them at a vastly reduced price,
to raise scarce cash to pay their bills. you might escape that due to
obamas stimulus, but it ain't over yet.
Wayne
2012-09-30 00:07:11 UTC
Permalink
"Orval Fairbairn" wrote in message news:orfairbairn-***@70-3-168-216.pools.spcsdns.net...

In article
Post by Nickname unavailable
Post by Orval Fairbairn
In article
Post by Nickname unavailable
bellsouth.net>
Post by Sid9
Post by Wayne
m...
Post by Wayne
Post by unknown
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
Auto production in states that didn't support was eliminated,
such
as
Tn
and thousands of jobs.
The entire Saturn and Pontiac lines were eliminated. Some nerds
didn't
like the idea, of affordable 2 seat convertibles, too dangerous
for
Americans and eliminating the cheaper lines. Thousands and
thousands
of
jobs.
The Bankers and Corporations and Greenies play our government
like
a
violin.
.
.
# GM as mismanaged company.
# Bankrupt and reorganized...still alive!
Boy, you never stop drinking the Koolaid.
GM is not and never was bankrupt. It was nationalized, complete
with
fucking over bond holders, who normally would be paid before other
creditors.
# bond holders know the score. stock holders know the score, if they
do
# not, then they better not be in the financial markets.
By law, stock holders and bond holders have legal rights during
Chapter
11.
The problem with GM is that the Dictator in Chief unilaterally
violated
contract law.
.
.
,
# Stockholders and bond holder would have lost all in a bankruptcy,
too.
# The president's administration did the best job possible
considering
the
# circumstances.
# Those who buy stocks and bond are very well aware of the risks.
Sid, if you don't understand the implications of Chapter 11 in
relation
to
stocks and bonds, vs some perverted version of it....
then it's no wonder you are in the 49%.
My GM stock became worthless without regard to how the
reorganization
was
carried out.
I knew it. I faced up to it.
The company has been poorly managed for decades.
This didn't happen overnight.
HOW GM was reorganized is meaningless...the fact is they were and they
survive....bankruptcy could very well have meant Chapter nine....a much
worse situation
I never bought GM stock because I knew better. :-)
i am glad that you understood how poorly private sector companies can
be run:))))
I don't buy government bonds, either! ;-)
boy, are you missing out. i was laughed at a few years ago by
"CONSERVATIVES" when i said i could not wait for treasuries to hit 4%,
it was a time when "THE CONSERVATIVES" were barking and braying we
were going into hyper-inflation. it scared people, and the interest
premium rose.
i knew better, being a student of keynes/galbraith, and the new deal,
i knew we were heading for deflation, and i was right. i get 4% year
in, year out, whilst most conservatives try to manipulate things to
get a return.
Post by Orval Fairbairn
If offered state or munis -- especially in California, I would not walk
away -- I would RUN!
californmia is the birthplace of reaganism, and they are reaping that
premium right now:)))))
# I buy stocks -- Apple is among them -- and I purchased it for about
# $12/share. I would say that my return is somewhat better than your 4%
# government bonds. ;-)

LOL. Good for you. I thought I was doing well with my $75 buy :)

And it is quite possible that GM will soon have to face bankruptcy again.
And producing crappy cars that are now in the middle of a recall won't help.
Orval Fairbairn
2012-09-30 02:08:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Orval Fairbairn
In article
Post by Nickname unavailable
Post by Orval Fairbairn
In article
Post by Nickname unavailable
bellsouth.net>
Post by Sid9
Post by Wayne
co
m...
Post by Wayne
Post by unknown
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit
never
got to see any of those jobs.
Auto production in states that didn't support was
eliminated,
such
as
Tn
and thousands of jobs.
The entire Saturn and Pontiac lines were eliminated. Some
nerds
didn't
like the idea, of affordable 2 seat convertibles, too
dangerous
for
Americans and eliminating the cheaper lines. Thousands and
thousands
of
jobs.
The Bankers and Corporations and Greenies play our
government
like
a
violin.
.
.
# GM as mismanaged company.
# Bankrupt and reorganized...still alive!
Boy, you never stop drinking the Koolaid.
GM is not and never was bankrupt. It was nationalized, complete
with
fucking over bond holders, who normally would be paid before
other
creditors.
# bond holders know the score. stock holders know the score, if
they
do
# not, then they better not be in the financial markets.
By law, stock holders and bond holders have legal rights during
Chapter
11.
The problem with GM is that the Dictator in Chief unilaterally
violated
contract law.
.
.
,
# Stockholders and bond holder would have lost all in a bankruptcy,
too.
# The president's administration did the best job possible
considering
the
# circumstances.
# Those who buy stocks and bond are very well aware of the risks.
Sid, if you don't understand the implications of Chapter 11 in
relation
to
stocks and bonds, vs some perverted version of it....
then it's no wonder you are in the 49%.
My GM stock became worthless without regard to how the
reorganization
was
carried out.
I knew it. I faced up to it.
The company has been poorly managed for decades.
This didn't happen overnight.
HOW GM was reorganized is meaningless...the fact is they were and they
survive....bankruptcy could very well have meant Chapter nine....a much
worse situation
I never bought GM stock because I knew better. :-)
i am glad that you understood how poorly private sector companies can
be run:))))
I don't buy government bonds, either! ;-)
boy, are you missing out. i was laughed at a few years ago by
"CONSERVATIVES" when i said i could not wait for treasuries to hit 4%,
it was a time when "THE CONSERVATIVES" were barking and braying we
were going into hyper-inflation. it scared people, and the interest
premium rose.
i knew better, being a student of keynes/galbraith, and the new deal,
i knew we were heading for deflation, and i was right. i get 4% year
in, year out, whilst most conservatives try to manipulate things to
get a return.
Post by Orval Fairbairn
If offered state or munis -- especially in California, I would not walk
away -- I would RUN!
californmia is the birthplace of reaganism, and they are reaping that
premium right now:)))))
# I buy stocks -- Apple is among them -- and I purchased it for about
# $12/share. I would say that my return is somewhat better than your 4%
# government bonds. ;-)
LOL. Good for you. I thought I was doing well with my $75 buy :)
And it is quite possible that GM will soon have to face bankruptcy again.
And producing crappy cars that are now in the middle of a recall won't help.
GM is typical of a bureaucracy-run corporation. The epithet "Government
Motors" fits in more ways than one. Just think of the mediocre autos we
could have under socialism -- cars like the Yugo, the Lada, for
instance. We might even have Lucas Electric vehicles, too.

Nickname unavailable
2012-09-28 05:24:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wayne
Post by unknown
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
Auto production in states that didn't support was eliminated, such as Tn
and thousands of jobs.
The entire Saturn and Pontiac lines were eliminated. Some nerds didn't
like the idea, of affordable 2 seat convertibles, too dangerous for
Americans and eliminating the cheaper lines. Thousands and thousands of
jobs.
The Bankers and Corporations and Greenies play our government like a violin.
.
.
# GM as mismanaged company.
# Bankrupt and reorganized...still alive!
Boy, you never stop drinking the Koolaid.
GM is not and never was bankrupt.  It was nationalized, complete with
fucking over bond holders, who normally would be paid before other
creditors.
#  bond holders know the score. stock holders know the score, if they do
# not, then they better not be in the financial markets.
By law, stock holders and bond holders have legal rights during Chapter 11.
The problem with GM is that the Dictator in Chief unilaterally violated
contract law.
you mean like scott walker? contracts are nullified all of the time.
do you watch fox news?
BeamMeUpScotty
2012-09-26 18:38:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sid9
Post by unknown
Post by The Modern Ghetto
But the jobs were out sourced and the people of Detroit never
got to see any of those jobs.
Auto production in states that didn't support was eliminated, such as
Tn and thousands of jobs.
The entire Saturn and Pontiac lines were eliminated. Some nerds didn't
like the idea, of affordable 2 seat convertibles, too dangerous for
Americans and eliminating the cheaper lines. Thousands and thousands
of jobs.
The Bankers and Corporations and Greenies play our government like a violin.
.
.
GM as mismanaged company.
Bankrupt and reorganized...still alive!
Still mismanaged and still edging its self into a final implosion of
bankruptcy that it may NOT emerge from, the Union workers will be eating
from garbage containers as they are in Spain today. That's what
Liberal-Socialism does for you. It's irony that in the end (and that
may or may not be soon) the UAW workers will be dumpster diving for
food. But they will have done it to themselves. They stole the company
and redistributed the wealth and when it all falls down, no doubt they
will blame some rich guy, but we'll all know that Liberalism is self
destructive and they did id all by themselves.
Continue reading on narkive:
Loading...