Discussion:
Checking Radiator Cooling
(too old to reply)
Guv Bob
2014-04-24 04:44:04 UTC
Permalink
My 97 Aerostar is overheating (see my endless postings...) and I'm finally getting to checking it out. Not overheating bad, but I now have time to spend on it. Anyway....

I got the engine up to temperature -- about 2/3 of the gauge. Checked the air flow at the grill and it's getting plenty of air being pulled in. So that likely says the fan clutch is at least working.

Then I shut it off and removed the fan shroud. The fins were hot enough to burn for the top 6-7 inches all the way left and right, then very cold from there down - I'd say 80 degrees F or less. The border between hot and cold areas was instant -- no gradual cooling.

Anyway, any ideas what's going on? Does that sound like a plugged radiator? Have to break for SUPPER now.... will search online if I'm still awake after a BIG dessert. =OD

Bob
Guv Bob
2014-04-24 08:58:13 UTC
Permalink
"Guv Bob" <***@yahooooooooooooooo.com> wrote in message news:***@earthlink.com...
My 97 Aerostar is overheating (see my endless postings...) and I'm finally getting to checking it out. Not overheating bad, but I now have time to spend on it. Anyway....

I got the engine up to temperature -- about 2/3 of the gauge. Checked the air flow at the grill and it's getting plenty of air being pulled in. So that likely says the fan clutch is at least working.

Then I shut it off and removed the fan shroud. The fins were hot enough to burn for the top 6-7 inches all the way left and right, then very cold from there down - I'd say 80 degrees F or less. The border between hot and cold areas was instant -- no gradual cooling.

Anyway, any ideas what's going on? Does that sound like a plugged radiator? Have to break for SUPPER now.... will search online if I'm still awake after a BIG dessert. =OD

Bob

---

After the big dessert.... I spent some time searching and found these helpful links....

Cooling System TS


1 - Clean Coolant?
2 - Radiator Debris?
3 - Leaks?
4 - Air Burp?
5 - Lower Radiator Hose Spring?
6 - Electric Fan?
7 - Thermostat?
8 - Water Pump?
9 - Fan Clutch?

Rodding out a radiator


Good video showing inside & cross-section of radiator


Practical and well-done radiator cleaning video

Guv Bob
2014-04-24 17:59:25 UTC
Permalink
"Guv Bob" <***@yahooooooooooooooo.com> wrote in message news:***@earthlink.com...
"Guv Bob" <***@yahooooooooooooooo.com> wrote in message news:***@earthlink.com...
My 97 Aerostar is overheating (see my endless postings...) and I'm finally getting to checking it out. Not overheating bad, but I now have time to spend on it. Anyway....

I got the engine up to temperature -- about 2/3 of the gauge. Checked the air flow at the grill and it's getting plenty of air being pulled in. So that likely says the fan clutch is at least working.

Then I shut it off and removed the fan shroud. The fins were hot enough to burn for the top 6-7 inches all the way left and right, then very cold from there down - I'd say 80 degrees F or less. The border between hot and cold areas was instant -- no gradual cooling.

Anyway, any ideas what's going on? Does that sound like a plugged radiator? Have to break for SUPPER now.... will search online if I'm still awake after a BIG dessert. =OD

Bob

---

After the big dessert.... I spent some time searching and found these helpful links....

Cooling System TS
http://youtu.be/MrBI1hRTgx4

1 - Clean Coolant?
2 - Radiator Debris?
3 - Leaks?
4 - Air Burp?
5 - Lower Radiator Hose Spring?
6 - Electric Fan?
7 - Thermostat?
8 - Water Pump?
9 - Fan Clutch?

Rodding out a radiator
http://youtu.be/c5Ghuq6habE

Good video showing inside & cross-section of radiator
http://youtu.be/A65613TaWYw

Practical and well-done radiator cleaning video
http://youtu.be/p66bxOH9q68

=====

I haven't found a sketch showing the inside of this particular radiator, but if it's like others, I'm guess there's a large blockage mid-way down either the inlet or outlet side. I can't imagine half of the cooling tubes being blocked or the whole tank being half full of sludge. Anyone have an idea how to try and clear it? I'm hesitant to use any chemicals, no knowing what is causing the blockage. I'm not able to do a pressure flush under the shade tree.
Jeff Strickland
2014-04-24 17:28:32 UTC
Permalink
"Guv Bob" <***@yahooooooooooooooo.com> wrote in message news:***@earthlink.com...
"Guv Bob" <***@yahooooooooooooooo.com> wrote in message news:***@earthlink.com...
"Guv Bob" <***@yahooooooooooooooo.com> wrote in message news:***@earthlink.com...
My 97 Aerostar is overheating (see my endless postings...) and I'm finally
getting to checking it out. Not overheating bad, but I now have time to
spend on it. Anyway....

I got the engine up to temperature -- about 2/3 of the gauge. Checked the
air flow at the grill and it's getting plenty of air being pulled in. So
that likely says the fan clutch is at least working.

Then I shut it off and removed the fan shroud. The fins were hot enough to
burn for the top 6-7 inches all the way left and right, then very cold from
there down - I'd say 80 degrees F or less. The border between hot and cold
areas was instant -- no gradual cooling.

Anyway, any ideas what's going on? Does that sound like a plugged radiator?
Have to break for SUPPER now.... will search online if I'm still awake after
a BIG dessert. =OD

Bob

---

After the big dessert.... I spent some time searching and found these
helpful links....

Cooling System TS
http://youtu.be/MrBI1hRTgx4

1 - Clean Coolant?
2 - Radiator Debris?
3 - Leaks?
4 - Air Burp?
5 - Lower Radiator Hose Spring?
6 - Electric Fan?
7 - Thermostat?
8 - Water Pump?
9 - Fan Clutch?

Rodding out a radiator
http://youtu.be/c5Ghuq6habE

Good video showing inside & cross-section of radiator
http://youtu.be/A65613TaWYw

Practical and well-done radiator cleaning video
http://youtu.be/p66bxOH9q68

=====

I haven't found a sketch showing the inside of this particular radiator, but
if it's like others, I'm guess there's a large blockage mid-way down either
the inlet or outlet side. I can't imagine half of the cooling tubes being
blocked or the whole tank being half full of sludge. Anyone have an idea
how to try and clear it? I'm hesitant to use any chemicals, no knowing what
is causing the blockage. I'm not able to do a pressure flush under the
shade tree.



++++++++++++++++++++++++
Water enters the radiator from the top hose, and exits the radiator from the
bottom hose. A blockage anywhere is a blockage everywhere. That is, there is
no blockage that is on the inlet side or on the outlet side, there is only a
blockage. This is always true because no matter the water level, there is
always water at the bottom even if there is no water at the top.

You said the car is overheating, then you said it isn't overheating bad. I'm
not sure what theat means. How do you know it is overheating? What makes you
think it is overheating?

If your engine is transverse mounted (sideways) then you do not have a fan
clutch because the fan is driven electrically.

Coolant cleanliness, or the lack of it, has no bearing on how well it cools.
It tells you more about the general health of the system, but not the
efficiency of it. Having said that, very dirty coolant means there is much
corrosion, and this is a bad sign. The coolant does not cool less, but the
corrosion shows that the system might be clogged.

Water pump or t-stat issues are the leading cause of cooling system issues.
But these components should cause dramatic overheating troubles, not
troubles that can be described as, "not bad."

Personally, you appear to be throwing stuff against the wall to see what
sticks. Your testing and theories have not uncovered any indication of
overheating. Well, not any that I have seen.
Guv Bob
2014-04-24 19:07:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Guv Bob
My 97 Aerostar is overheating (see my endless postings...) and I'm finally
getting to checking it out. Not overheating bad, but I now have time to
spend on it. Anyway....
I got the engine up to temperature -- about 2/3 of the gauge. Checked the
air flow at the grill and it's getting plenty of air being pulled in. So
that likely says the fan clutch is at least working.
Then I shut it off and removed the fan shroud. The fins were hot enough to
burn for the top 6-7 inches all the way left and right, then very cold from
there down - I'd say 80 degrees F or less. The border between hot and cold
areas was instant -- no gradual cooling.
Anyway, any ideas what's going on? Does that sound like a plugged radiator?
Have to break for SUPPER now.... will search online if I'm still awake after
a BIG dessert. =OD
Bob
---
After the big dessert.... I spent some time searching and found these helpful links....
Cooling System TS
http://youtu.be/MrBI1hRTgx4
1 - Clean Coolant?
2 - Radiator Debris?
3 - Leaks?
4 - Air Burp?
5 - Lower Radiator Hose Spring?
6 - Electric Fan?
7 - Thermostat?
8 - Water Pump?
9 - Fan Clutch?
Rodding out a radiator
http://youtu.be/c5Ghuq6habE
Good video showing inside & cross-section of radiator
http://youtu.be/A65613TaWYw
Practical and well-done radiator cleaning video
http://youtu.be/p66bxOH9q68
=====
I haven't found a sketch showing the inside of this particular radiator, but
if it's like others, I'm guess there's a large blockage mid-way down either
the inlet or outlet side. I can't imagine half of the cooling tubes being
blocked or the whole tank being half full of sludge. Anyone have an idea
how to try and clear it? I'm hesitant to use any chemicals, no knowing what
is causing the blockage. I'm not able to do a pressure flush under the
shade tree.
++++++++++++++++++++++++
Water enters the radiator from the top hose, and exits the radiator from the
bottom hose. A blockage anywhere is a blockage everywhere. That is, there is
no blockage that is on the inlet side or on the outlet side, there is only a
blockage. This is always true because no matter the water level, there is
always water at the bottom even if there is no water at the top.
Ah so, said the blind man! That makes sense to me if there is only one or a few tubes snaking back and forth. The photos I saw looked like dozens of small tubes.
Post by Guv Bob
You said the car is overheating, then you said it isn't overheating bad. I'm
not sure what theat means. How do you know it is overheating? What makes you
think it is overheating?
In the past the temp gauge was at around 60% of full scale. Now, it keeps creeping up slowly and eventually gets to full scale. If it gets close to full scale, I can put it in neutral, rev the engine and in 1 minute it's back to 60%. I have never let it get to full scale. Worse is when it's sitting still idling.
Post by Guv Bob
If your engine is transverse mounted (sideways) then you do not have a fan
clutch because the fan is driven electrically.
Not mounted transversely. Ford Aerostar. 3.0. Rear drive.
Post by Guv Bob
Coolant cleanliness, or the lack of it, has no bearing on how well it cools.
It tells you more about the general health of the system, but not the
efficiency of it. Having said that, very dirty coolant means there is much
corrosion, and this is a bad sign. The coolant does not cool less, but the
corrosion shows that the system might be clogged.
Coolant has brown color. I drained it a few months ago and it was opaque. After sitting a week, the solids settled out and liquid was clear greenish again. No oil floating on top.
Post by Guv Bob
Water pump or t-stat issues are the leading cause of cooling system issues.
But these components should cause dramatic overheating troubles, not
troubles that can be described as, "not bad."
Checked the thermostat first since that was easy. It was already fine but replaced anyway. No noise or wobbling pulley at the water pump.
Post by Guv Bob
Personally, you appear to be throwing stuff against the wall to see what
sticks. Your testing and theories have not uncovered any indication of
overheating. Well, not any that I have seen.
At this point, the car is drivable, but I don't want to wait much longer. I was hoping to be able to flush out the radiator at home and make small repairs at home. I can swap out the radiator myself, but probably better off having the garage do it and check out everything.
c***@snyder.on.ca
2014-04-24 23:38:51 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 24 Apr 2014 11:07:34 -0800, "Guv Bob"
Post by Guv Bob
Post by Guv Bob
My 97 Aerostar is overheating (see my endless postings...) and I'm finally
getting to checking it out. Not overheating bad, but I now have time to
spend on it. Anyway....
I got the engine up to temperature -- about 2/3 of the gauge. Checked the
air flow at the grill and it's getting plenty of air being pulled in. So
that likely says the fan clutch is at least working.
Then I shut it off and removed the fan shroud. The fins were hot enough to
burn for the top 6-7 inches all the way left and right, then very cold from
there down - I'd say 80 degrees F or less. The border between hot and cold
areas was instant -- no gradual cooling.
Anyway, any ideas what's going on? Does that sound like a plugged radiator?
Have to break for SUPPER now.... will search online if I'm still awake after
a BIG dessert. =OD
Bob
---
After the big dessert.... I spent some time searching and found these helpful links....
Cooling System TS
http://youtu.be/MrBI1hRTgx4
1 - Clean Coolant?
2 - Radiator Debris?
3 - Leaks?
4 - Air Burp?
5 - Lower Radiator Hose Spring?
6 - Electric Fan?
7 - Thermostat?
8 - Water Pump?
9 - Fan Clutch?
Rodding out a radiator
http://youtu.be/c5Ghuq6habE
Good video showing inside & cross-section of radiator
http://youtu.be/A65613TaWYw
Practical and well-done radiator cleaning video
http://youtu.be/p66bxOH9q68
=====
I haven't found a sketch showing the inside of this particular radiator, but
if it's like others, I'm guess there's a large blockage mid-way down either
the inlet or outlet side. I can't imagine half of the cooling tubes being
blocked or the whole tank being half full of sludge. Anyone have an idea
how to try and clear it? I'm hesitant to use any chemicals, no knowing what
is causing the blockage. I'm not able to do a pressure flush under the
shade tree.
++++++++++++++++++++++++
Water enters the radiator from the top hose, and exits the radiator from the
bottom hose. A blockage anywhere is a blockage everywhere. That is, there is
no blockage that is on the inlet side or on the outlet side, there is only a
blockage. This is always true because no matter the water level, there is
always water at the bottom even if there is no water at the top.
Ah so, said the blind man! That makes sense to me if there is only one or a few tubes snaking back and forth. The photos I saw looked like dozens of small tubes.
They ARE dozens of small tubes - all in parallel. There is no "single
path" throuigh the rad. I have no idea what Jeff means by "A blockage
anywhere is a blockage everywhere". I've been a mechanic since 1969,
Licenced since 1971, and I've repaired and replaced countless rads.
Post by Guv Bob
Post by Guv Bob
You said the car is overheating, then you said it isn't overheating bad. I'm
not sure what theat means. How do you know it is overheating? What makes you
think it is overheating?
In the past the temp gauge was at around 60% of full scale. Now, it keeps creeping up slowly and eventually gets to full scale. If it gets close to full scale, I can put it in neutral, rev the engine and in 1 minute it's back to 60%. I have never let it get to full scale. Worse is when it's sitting still idling.
The engine IS overheating. You are just smart enough to catch it
before it gets too serious. Your rad is 60% plugged, according to your
observation. They are under $100 for brand new rads from many
aftermarket rad suppliers even in Canada - so likely $60-ish in the
USA
Post by Guv Bob
Post by Guv Bob
If your engine is transverse mounted (sideways) then you do not have a fan
clutch because the fan is driven electrically.
Not mounted transversely. Ford Aerostar. 3.0. Rear drive.
Post by Guv Bob
Coolant cleanliness, or the lack of it, has no bearing on how well it cools.
It tells you more about the general health of the system, but not the
efficiency of it. Having said that, very dirty coolant means there is much
corrosion, and this is a bad sign. The coolant does not cool less, but the
corrosion shows that the system might be clogged.
Coolant has brown color. I drained it a few months ago and it was opaque. After sitting a week, the solids settled out and liquid was clear greenish again. No oil floating on top.
Post by Guv Bob
Water pump or t-stat issues are the leading cause of cooling system issues.
But these components should cause dramatic overheating troubles, not
troubles that can be described as, "not bad."
Checked the thermostat first since that was easy. It was already fine but replaced anyway. No noise or wobbling pulley at the water pump.
Post by Guv Bob
Personally, you appear to be throwing stuff against the wall to see what
sticks. Your testing and theories have not uncovered any indication of
overheating. Well, not any that I have seen.
At this point, the car is drivable, but I don't want to wait much longer. I was hoping to be able to flush out the radiator at home and make small repairs at home. I can swap out the radiator myself, but probably better off having the garage do it and check out everything.
Buy a new rad, flush out all the mud from the block and the heater
core. Replace any "iffy" hoses, and enjoy the van for the summer. DO
NOT allow it to seriously overheat, or you can scrap the truck,
Jeff Strickland
2014-04-25 01:03:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Guv Bob
My 97 Aerostar is overheating (see my endless postings...) and I'm finally
getting to checking it out. Not overheating bad, but I now have time to
spend on it. Anyway....
I got the engine up to temperature -- about 2/3 of the gauge. Checked the
air flow at the grill and it's getting plenty of air being pulled in. So
that likely says the fan clutch is at least working.
Then I shut it off and removed the fan shroud. The fins were hot enough to
burn for the top 6-7 inches all the way left and right, then very cold from
there down - I'd say 80 degrees F or less. The border between hot and cold
areas was instant -- no gradual cooling.
Anyway, any ideas what's going on? Does that sound like a plugged radiator?
Have to break for SUPPER now.... will search online if I'm still awake after
a BIG dessert. =OD
Bob
---
After the big dessert.... I spent some time searching and found these helpful links....
Cooling System TS
http://youtu.be/MrBI1hRTgx4
1 - Clean Coolant?
2 - Radiator Debris?
3 - Leaks?
4 - Air Burp?
5 - Lower Radiator Hose Spring?
6 - Electric Fan?
7 - Thermostat?
8 - Water Pump?
9 - Fan Clutch?
Rodding out a radiator
http://youtu.be/c5Ghuq6habE
Good video showing inside & cross-section of radiator
http://youtu.be/A65613TaWYw
Practical and well-done radiator cleaning video
http://youtu.be/p66bxOH9q68
=====
I haven't found a sketch showing the inside of this particular radiator, but
if it's like others, I'm guess there's a large blockage mid-way down either
the inlet or outlet side. I can't imagine half of the cooling tubes being
blocked or the whole tank being half full of sludge. Anyone have an idea
how to try and clear it? I'm hesitant to use any chemicals, no knowing what
is causing the blockage. I'm not able to do a pressure flush under the
shade tree.
++++++++++++++++++++++++
Water enters the radiator from the top hose, and exits the radiator from the
bottom hose. A blockage anywhere is a blockage everywhere. That is, there is
no blockage that is on the inlet side or on the outlet side, there is only a
blockage. This is always true because no matter the water level, there is
always water at the bottom even if there is no water at the top.
Ah so, said the blind man! That makes sense to me if there is only one or
a few tubes snaking back and forth. The photos I saw looked like dozens of
small tubes.

+++++++++++++

It does not matter how many tubes there are, water enters on the top or side
and exits the bottom or opposite side. There absolutely are dozens of tubes,
but this does not matter, and it means that you can have some number of
tubes that are clogged, and the radiator will still work, that is, it will
cool the engine.
Post by Guv Bob
You said the car is overheating, then you said it isn't overheating bad. I'm
not sure what theat means. How do you know it is overheating? What makes you
think it is overheating?
In the past the temp gauge was at around 60% of full scale. Now, it keeps
creeping up slowly and eventually gets to full scale. If it gets close to
full scale, I can put it in neutral, rev the engine and in 1 minute it's
back to 60%. I have never let it get to full scale. Worse is when it's
sitting still idling.

++++++++++++++++++
That's bad. The overheating is bad. It might be slow, but it is still bad.
The needle should never ever get to full scale, and if it does then you
should shut the engine off immediately. Immediately, not in a few minutes or
miles. Immediately.

Your description of revving the engine says that the viscous couple is
failing. The job of the viscous couple is to physically couple the fan to
the drive belt when the vehicle is not moving or isa moving slowly. A
viscous couple (also called a fan clutch) is a device that's filled with a
jelly-like material. If the couple gets hot, the jelly expands and the fan
is locked to the water pump pulley and the fan belt. When the vehicle is not
moving, the airflow over the radiator is very poor, the fan clutch causes
the fan to forceably pull air through the radiator. The fan clutch wears out
and the fan is driven purely by the friction coefficient of the viscous
material -- the jelly stuff. At speed, the airflow is sufficient BECAUSE of
the speed of the vehicle. The vehicle's motion is enough to push air through
the radiator, so the fan clutch cools and allows the fan to be driven by
nothing more than the act of the jelly rubbing on other nearby components.
When the vehicle slows, the airflow is reduced, the fan clutch warms up, and
the fan is physically driven by the belt.

Your fan clutch is toast if the heat rises when the vehicle goes slow --
stop-n-go traffic that is more stop than go -- and then the heat falls again
when the traffic breaks free and you can go fast again -- fast is a
sustained speed above about 30. If you drive along and all is well, then you
slow down to a stop or crawl and the heat rises, then you can drive along
again and all is well, this is EXACTLY the problem you have with a failed
fan clutch -- or viscous couple.

You said that you rev the engine and this brings the heat down. You are
speeding up the fan through an action that is similar to what the viscous
couple is supposed to accomplish.
Post by Guv Bob
If your engine is transverse mounted (sideways) then you do not have a fan
clutch because the fan is driven electrically.
Not mounted transversely. Ford Aerostar. 3.0. Rear drive.
Post by Guv Bob
Coolant cleanliness, or the lack of it, has no bearing on how well it cools.
It tells you more about the general health of the system, but not the
efficiency of it. Having said that, very dirty coolant means there is much
corrosion, and this is a bad sign. The coolant does not cool less, but the
corrosion shows that the system might be clogged.
Coolant has brown color. I drained it a few months ago and it was opaque.
After sitting a week, the solids settled out and liquid was clear greenish
again. No oil floating on top.

++++++++++++++++++++
This is all good. If your coolant is ugly again, then you should invest in a
professional flush. If you are able to remove the t-stat then you can
connect your garden hose to the top hose and turn it on until the water
flows clear out of the t-stat housing that has the t-stat removed. There are
environmental issues in doing this that some will object to, just so you
know. A smart guy would open the heater valve and flush the garden hose
through it also. The color of the coolant does not indicate the ability to
cool, it indicates the overall health of the system.

At the end of the flush, you desire a 50/50 mix of anti-freeze and water.
This is not a hard ratio, but it is the desired one. 60/40 or 40/60 works
okay, but heavy water exposes you to problems in freezing conditions. If you
run the garden hose until the water comes out clear, then drain the radiator
and add in pure anti freeze, the result will be very close to a 50/50 mix.

NEWSFLASH
Making your own premix is far cheaper than buying it. Save an empty gallon
coolant jug, and buy a full gallon of straight anti-freeze. Pour the
anti-freeze into a bucket and then add a full bottle of water. Mix. Put half
of the mix into the new bottle and the other hafl into the old bottle. You
just made 2 gallons of 50/50 premix. (The next time you are at the auto
parts store, check the prices of premix and straight coolant. The premix
costs more than the straight coolant and you get less of the anti freeze --
half as much as a gallon of straight coolant.
Post by Guv Bob
Water pump or t-stat issues are the leading cause of cooling system issues.
But these components should cause dramatic overheating troubles, not
troubles that can be described as, "not bad."
Checked the thermostat first since that was easy. It was already fine but
replaced anyway. No noise or wobbling pulley at the water pump.
Post by Guv Bob
Personally, you appear to be throwing stuff against the wall to see what
sticks. Your testing and theories have not uncovered any indication of
overheating. Well, not any that I have seen.
At this point, the car is drivable, but I don't want to wait much longer. I
was hoping to be able to flush out the radiator at home and make small
repairs at home. I can swap out the radiator myself, but probably better
off having the garage do it and check out everything.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

With the additional information you gave, I do not think you need a
radiator. You might benefit from a flush, but you certainly need a fan
clutch (viscous couple). Since you have had the t-stat out, then you can
take it out again -- be sure to use a new gasket when you put it back in --
and this will let you flush the cooling system at home. KEEP IN MIND THE
OBJECTIONABLE NATURE OF FLUSHING COOLANT DOWN THE STREET MIGHT PISS THE
NEIGHBORS OFF. If you flush the radiator in your driveway, be sure to
dillute the mess you are sure to make.
Jeff Strickland
2014-04-25 01:12:39 UTC
Permalink
"Jeff Strickland" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:ljcc9h$u7s$***@dont-email.me...
I'm not saying to NOT replace the radiator, I just don't know what you are
looking at. If the radiator is the type where the coolant goes into the side
instead of the top (coolant travels horizontally as opposed to vertically),
then sediment can settle at the bottom and clog that row of tubes, then
settle on the next row up and clog that row of tubes, and so on. Eventually
you have half of a radiator, or less, and this is always a problem.

Because you said that the heat falls if you get more air to pass through the
radiator -- you speed the car or rev the engine -- then my money is still on
the viscous couple.

A radiator is cheap. Indeed, you can get a radiator from online sources such
as Radiator Barn for $100-ish, it's cheaper to replace than to repair. Rock
Auto is a good source for the fan clutch, and they might have your radiator.
www.rockauto.com.
c***@snyder.on.ca
2014-04-24 23:30:24 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 24 Apr 2014 10:28:32 -0700, "Jeff Strickland"
Post by Guv Bob
My 97 Aerostar is overheating (see my endless postings...) and I'm finally
getting to checking it out. Not overheating bad, but I now have time to
spend on it. Anyway....
I got the engine up to temperature -- about 2/3 of the gauge. Checked the
air flow at the grill and it's getting plenty of air being pulled in. So
that likely says the fan clutch is at least working.
Then I shut it off and removed the fan shroud. The fins were hot enough to
burn for the top 6-7 inches all the way left and right, then very cold from
there down - I'd say 80 degrees F or less. The border between hot and cold
areas was instant -- no gradual cooling.
Anyway, any ideas what's going on? Does that sound like a plugged radiator?
Have to break for SUPPER now.... will search online if I'm still awake after
a BIG dessert. =OD
Bob
---
After the big dessert.... I spent some time searching and found these helpful links....
Cooling System TS
http://youtu.be/MrBI1hRTgx4
1 - Clean Coolant?
2 - Radiator Debris?
3 - Leaks?
4 - Air Burp?
5 - Lower Radiator Hose Spring?
6 - Electric Fan?
7 - Thermostat?
8 - Water Pump?
9 - Fan Clutch?
Rodding out a radiator
http://youtu.be/c5Ghuq6habE
Good video showing inside & cross-section of radiator
http://youtu.be/A65613TaWYw
Practical and well-done radiator cleaning video
http://youtu.be/p66bxOH9q68
=====
I haven't found a sketch showing the inside of this particular radiator, but
if it's like others, I'm guess there's a large blockage mid-way down either
the inlet or outlet side. I can't imagine half of the cooling tubes being
blocked or the whole tank being half full of sludge. Anyone have an idea
how to try and clear it? I'm hesitant to use any chemicals, no knowing what
is causing the blockage. I'm not able to do a pressure flush under the
shade tree.
++++++++++++++++++++++++
Water enters the radiator from the top hose, and exits the radiator from the
bottom hose. A blockage anywhere is a blockage everywhere. That is, there is
no blockage that is on the inlet side or on the outlet side, there is only a
blockage. This is always true because no matter the water level, there is
always water at the bottom even if there is no water at the top.
You are forgetting, the Aerostar, like most relatively current
vehicles, uses a CROSS FLOW rad. The bottom tubes will block first due
to sediment. If it is hot at the top, and cold below, the rad is
blocked badly. For the cost of having a rad "rodded out" today, you
can buy a brand new aftermarket rad - and you are going to have to
remove it either way. Remove it ONCE.
Post by Guv Bob
You said the car is overheating, then you said it isn't overheating bad. I'm
not sure what theat means. How do you know it is overheating? What makes you
think it is overheating?
If your engine is transverse mounted (sideways) then you do not have a fan
clutch because the fan is driven electrically.
There has never been a transverse engine AEROSTAR. It is a rear wheel
drive, old-school TRUCK.
Post by Guv Bob
Coolant cleanliness, or the lack of it, has no bearing on how well it cools.
It tells you more about the general health of the system, but not the
efficiency of it. Having said that, very dirty coolant means there is much
corrosion, and this is a bad sign. The coolant does not cool less, but the
corrosion shows that the system might be clogged.
Water pump or t-stat issues are the leading cause of cooling system issues.
But these components should cause dramatic overheating troubles, not
troubles that can be described as, "not bad."
Which a restricted radiator WILL do. Moderate overheating under light
load in cool weather, which will turn into drastic overheating under
load in hot weather, particularly at low speeds.
I've owned 2 Aerostars - there have been 6 in the family, and being a
mechanic I ended up working on most of them
Post by Guv Bob
Personally, you appear to be throwing stuff against the wall to see what
sticks. Your testing and theories have not uncovered any indication of
overheating. Well, not any that I have seen.
The fact that the top of the rad is hot and the rest cold would point
towards a cooling problem
Guv Bob
2014-04-25 04:54:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
On Thu, 24 Apr 2014 10:28:32 -0700, "Jeff Strickland"
Post by Guv Bob
My 97 Aerostar is overheating (see my endless postings...) and I'm finally
getting to checking it out. Not overheating bad, but I now have time to
spend on it. Anyway....
I got the engine up to temperature -- about 2/3 of the gauge. Checked the
air flow at the grill and it's getting plenty of air being pulled in. So
that likely says the fan clutch is at least working.
Then I shut it off and removed the fan shroud. The fins were hot enough to
burn for the top 6-7 inches all the way left and right, then very cold from
there down - I'd say 80 degrees F or less. The border between hot and cold
areas was instant -- no gradual cooling.
Anyway, any ideas what's going on? Does that sound like a plugged radiator?
Have to break for SUPPER now.... will search online if I'm still awake after
a BIG dessert. =OD
Bob
---
After the big dessert.... I spent some time searching and found these helpful links....
Cooling System TS
http://youtu.be/MrBI1hRTgx4
1 - Clean Coolant?
2 - Radiator Debris?
3 - Leaks?
4 - Air Burp?
5 - Lower Radiator Hose Spring?
6 - Electric Fan?
7 - Thermostat?
8 - Water Pump?
9 - Fan Clutch?
Rodding out a radiator
http://youtu.be/c5Ghuq6habE
Good video showing inside & cross-section of radiator
http://youtu.be/A65613TaWYw
Practical and well-done radiator cleaning video
http://youtu.be/p66bxOH9q68
=====
I haven't found a sketch showing the inside of this particular radiator, but
if it's like others, I'm guess there's a large blockage mid-way down either
the inlet or outlet side. I can't imagine half of the cooling tubes being
blocked or the whole tank being half full of sludge. Anyone have an idea
how to try and clear it? I'm hesitant to use any chemicals, no knowing what
is causing the blockage. I'm not able to do a pressure flush under the
shade tree.
++++++++++++++++++++++++
Water enters the radiator from the top hose, and exits the radiator from the
bottom hose. A blockage anywhere is a blockage everywhere. That is, there is
no blockage that is on the inlet side or on the outlet side, there is only a
blockage. This is always true because no matter the water level, there is
always water at the bottom even if there is no water at the top.
You are forgetting, the Aerostar, like most relatively current
vehicles, uses a CROSS FLOW rad. The bottom tubes will block first due
to sediment. If it is hot at the top, and cold below, the rad is
blocked badly. For the cost of having a rad "rodded out" today, you
can buy a brand new aftermarket rad - and you are going to have to
remove it either way. Remove it ONCE.
Post by Guv Bob
You said the car is overheating, then you said it isn't overheating bad. I'm
not sure what theat means. How do you know it is overheating? What makes you
think it is overheating?
If your engine is transverse mounted (sideways) then you do not have a fan
clutch because the fan is driven electrically.
There has never been a transverse engine AEROSTAR. It is a rear wheel
drive, old-school TRUCK.
Post by Guv Bob
Coolant cleanliness, or the lack of it, has no bearing on how well it cools.
It tells you more about the general health of the system, but not the
efficiency of it. Having said that, very dirty coolant means there is much
corrosion, and this is a bad sign. The coolant does not cool less, but the
corrosion shows that the system might be clogged.
Water pump or t-stat issues are the leading cause of cooling system issues.
But these components should cause dramatic overheating troubles, not
troubles that can be described as, "not bad."
Which a restricted radiator WILL do. Moderate overheating under light
load in cool weather, which will turn into drastic overheating under
load in hot weather, particularly at low speeds.
I've owned 2 Aerostars - there have been 6 in the family, and being a
mechanic I ended up working on most of them
Post by Guv Bob
Personally, you appear to be throwing stuff against the wall to see what
sticks. Your testing and theories have not uncovered any indication of
overheating. Well, not any that I have seen.
The fact that the top of the rad is hot and the rest cold would point
towards a cooling problem
Thanks Jeff & Clare. You guys are great instructors. I suspected the fan clutch just checking how it spins cold and hot and already have the new one on hand. Warranty replacement so no cost there.

I was expecting radiators to be more like $200-300, but if they are that cheap, replacing is definitely the way to go.
c***@snyder.on.ca
2014-04-25 23:35:22 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 24 Apr 2014 20:54:33 -0800, "Guv Bob"
Post by Guv Bob
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
On Thu, 24 Apr 2014 10:28:32 -0700, "Jeff Strickland"
Post by Guv Bob
My 97 Aerostar is overheating (see my endless postings...) and I'm finally
getting to checking it out. Not overheating bad, but I now have time to
spend on it. Anyway....
I got the engine up to temperature -- about 2/3 of the gauge. Checked the
air flow at the grill and it's getting plenty of air being pulled in. So
that likely says the fan clutch is at least working.
Then I shut it off and removed the fan shroud. The fins were hot enough to
burn for the top 6-7 inches all the way left and right, then very cold from
there down - I'd say 80 degrees F or less. The border between hot and cold
areas was instant -- no gradual cooling.
Anyway, any ideas what's going on? Does that sound like a plugged radiator?
Have to break for SUPPER now.... will search online if I'm still awake after
a BIG dessert. =OD
Bob
---
After the big dessert.... I spent some time searching and found these helpful links....
Cooling System TS
http://youtu.be/MrBI1hRTgx4
1 - Clean Coolant?
2 - Radiator Debris?
3 - Leaks?
4 - Air Burp?
5 - Lower Radiator Hose Spring?
6 - Electric Fan?
7 - Thermostat?
8 - Water Pump?
9 - Fan Clutch?
Rodding out a radiator
http://youtu.be/c5Ghuq6habE
Good video showing inside & cross-section of radiator
http://youtu.be/A65613TaWYw
Practical and well-done radiator cleaning video
http://youtu.be/p66bxOH9q68
=====
I haven't found a sketch showing the inside of this particular radiator, but
if it's like others, I'm guess there's a large blockage mid-way down either
the inlet or outlet side. I can't imagine half of the cooling tubes being
blocked or the whole tank being half full of sludge. Anyone have an idea
how to try and clear it? I'm hesitant to use any chemicals, no knowing what
is causing the blockage. I'm not able to do a pressure flush under the
shade tree.
++++++++++++++++++++++++
Water enters the radiator from the top hose, and exits the radiator from the
bottom hose. A blockage anywhere is a blockage everywhere. That is, there is
no blockage that is on the inlet side or on the outlet side, there is only a
blockage. This is always true because no matter the water level, there is
always water at the bottom even if there is no water at the top.
You are forgetting, the Aerostar, like most relatively current
vehicles, uses a CROSS FLOW rad. The bottom tubes will block first due
to sediment. If it is hot at the top, and cold below, the rad is
blocked badly. For the cost of having a rad "rodded out" today, you
can buy a brand new aftermarket rad - and you are going to have to
remove it either way. Remove it ONCE.
Post by Guv Bob
You said the car is overheating, then you said it isn't overheating bad. I'm
not sure what theat means. How do you know it is overheating? What makes you
think it is overheating?
If your engine is transverse mounted (sideways) then you do not have a fan
clutch because the fan is driven electrically.
There has never been a transverse engine AEROSTAR. It is a rear wheel
drive, old-school TRUCK.
Post by Guv Bob
Coolant cleanliness, or the lack of it, has no bearing on how well it cools.
It tells you more about the general health of the system, but not the
efficiency of it. Having said that, very dirty coolant means there is much
corrosion, and this is a bad sign. The coolant does not cool less, but the
corrosion shows that the system might be clogged.
Water pump or t-stat issues are the leading cause of cooling system issues.
But these components should cause dramatic overheating troubles, not
troubles that can be described as, "not bad."
Which a restricted radiator WILL do. Moderate overheating under light
load in cool weather, which will turn into drastic overheating under
load in hot weather, particularly at low speeds.
I've owned 2 Aerostars - there have been 6 in the family, and being a
mechanic I ended up working on most of them
Post by Guv Bob
Personally, you appear to be throwing stuff against the wall to see what
sticks. Your testing and theories have not uncovered any indication of
overheating. Well, not any that I have seen.
The fact that the top of the rad is hot and the rest cold would point
towards a cooling problem
Thanks Jeff & Clare. You guys are great instructors. I suspected the fan clutch just checking how it spins cold and hot and already have the new one on hand. Warranty replacement so no cost there.
I was expecting radiators to be more like $200-300, but if they are that cheap, replacing is definitely the way to go.
Forgot to mention - as well as being a mechanic since 1969, I was also
an automotive mechanics instructor at both secondary school and trade
level ------
Guv Bob
2014-04-26 01:23:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
On Thu, 24 Apr 2014 20:54:33 -0800, "Guv Bob"
Post by Guv Bob
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
On Thu, 24 Apr 2014 10:28:32 -0700, "Jeff Strickland"
Post by Guv Bob
My 97 Aerostar is overheating (see my endless postings...) and I'm finally
getting to checking it out. Not overheating bad, but I now have time to
spend on it. Anyway....
I got the engine up to temperature -- about 2/3 of the gauge. Checked the
air flow at the grill and it's getting plenty of air being pulled in. So
that likely says the fan clutch is at least working.
Then I shut it off and removed the fan shroud. The fins were hot enough to
burn for the top 6-7 inches all the way left and right, then very cold from
there down - I'd say 80 degrees F or less. The border between hot and cold
areas was instant -- no gradual cooling.
Anyway, any ideas what's going on? Does that sound like a plugged radiator?
Have to break for SUPPER now.... will search online if I'm still awake after
a BIG dessert. =OD
Bob
---
After the big dessert.... I spent some time searching and found these
helpful links....
Cooling System TS
http://youtu.be/MrBI1hRTgx4
1 - Clean Coolant?
2 - Radiator Debris?
3 - Leaks?
4 - Air Burp?
5 - Lower Radiator Hose Spring?
6 - Electric Fan?
7 - Thermostat?
8 - Water Pump?
9 - Fan Clutch?
Rodding out a radiator
http://youtu.be/c5Ghuq6habE
Good video showing inside & cross-section of radiator
http://youtu.be/A65613TaWYw
Practical and well-done radiator cleaning video
http://youtu.be/p66bxOH9q68
=====
I haven't found a sketch showing the inside of this particular radiator, but
if it's like others, I'm guess there's a large blockage mid-way down either
the inlet or outlet side. I can't imagine half of the cooling tubes being
blocked or the whole tank being half full of sludge. Anyone have an idea
how to try and clear it? I'm hesitant to use any chemicals, no knowing what
is causing the blockage. I'm not able to do a pressure flush under the
shade tree.
++++++++++++++++++++++++
Water enters the radiator from the top hose, and exits the radiator from the
bottom hose. A blockage anywhere is a blockage everywhere. That is, there is
no blockage that is on the inlet side or on the outlet side, there is only a
blockage. This is always true because no matter the water level, there is
always water at the bottom even if there is no water at the top.
You are forgetting, the Aerostar, like most relatively current
vehicles, uses a CROSS FLOW rad. The bottom tubes will block first due
to sediment. If it is hot at the top, and cold below, the rad is
blocked badly. For the cost of having a rad "rodded out" today, you
can buy a brand new aftermarket rad - and you are going to have to
remove it either way. Remove it ONCE.
Post by Guv Bob
You said the car is overheating, then you said it isn't overheating bad. I'm
not sure what theat means. How do you know it is overheating? What makes you
think it is overheating?
If your engine is transverse mounted (sideways) then you do not have a fan
clutch because the fan is driven electrically.
There has never been a transverse engine AEROSTAR. It is a rear wheel
drive, old-school TRUCK.
Post by Guv Bob
Coolant cleanliness, or the lack of it, has no bearing on how well it cools.
It tells you more about the general health of the system, but not the
efficiency of it. Having said that, very dirty coolant means there is much
corrosion, and this is a bad sign. The coolant does not cool less, but the
corrosion shows that the system might be clogged.
Water pump or t-stat issues are the leading cause of cooling system issues.
But these components should cause dramatic overheating troubles, not
troubles that can be described as, "not bad."
Which a restricted radiator WILL do. Moderate overheating under light
load in cool weather, which will turn into drastic overheating under
load in hot weather, particularly at low speeds.
I've owned 2 Aerostars - there have been 6 in the family, and being a
mechanic I ended up working on most of them
Post by Guv Bob
Personally, you appear to be throwing stuff against the wall to see what
sticks. Your testing and theories have not uncovered any indication of
overheating. Well, not any that I have seen.
The fact that the top of the rad is hot and the rest cold would point
towards a cooling problem
Thanks Jeff & Clare. You guys are great instructors. I suspected the fan clutch just checking how it spins cold and hot and already have the new one on hand. Warranty replacement so no cost there.
I was expecting radiators to be more like $200-300, but if they are that cheap, replacing is definitely the way to go.
Forgot to mention - as well as being a mechanic since 1969, I was also
an automotive mechanics instructor at both secondary school and trade
level ------
By your postings, I'm not surprised. You have my highest respect. My experience is with instrumentation and control panels in process plants (power stations, water plants, etc.). Mostly DC, low level AC and fluid flow. I'm an expert at "holy smokes, what did I get into now!" situations. You can probably tell I over-research stuff and read everything I can before taking something apart. I learned from my dad long, long ago how to take things apart systematically -- and sometimes even put them back together again!

But, and this is a big butt... auto mechanics is a whole different ball game, especially these days where you can get to everything except what you need to work on. I would never tell anybody I was a mechanic. And the lovely wife will vouch for that - plus comment about my low level skills in carpentry and plumbing.
c***@snyder.on.ca
2014-04-26 00:52:05 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 25 Apr 2014 17:23:19 -0800, "Guv Bob"
Post by Guv Bob
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
On Thu, 24 Apr 2014 20:54:33 -0800, "Guv Bob"
Post by Guv Bob
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
On Thu, 24 Apr 2014 10:28:32 -0700, "Jeff Strickland"
Post by Guv Bob
My 97 Aerostar is overheating (see my endless postings...) and I'm finally
getting to checking it out. Not overheating bad, but I now have time to
spend on it. Anyway....
I got the engine up to temperature -- about 2/3 of the gauge. Checked the
air flow at the grill and it's getting plenty of air being pulled in. So
that likely says the fan clutch is at least working.
Then I shut it off and removed the fan shroud. The fins were hot enough to
burn for the top 6-7 inches all the way left and right, then very cold from
there down - I'd say 80 degrees F or less. The border between hot and cold
areas was instant -- no gradual cooling.
Anyway, any ideas what's going on? Does that sound like a plugged radiator?
Have to break for SUPPER now.... will search online if I'm still awake after
a BIG dessert. =OD
Bob
---
After the big dessert.... I spent some time searching and found these
helpful links....
Cooling System TS
http://youtu.be/MrBI1hRTgx4
1 - Clean Coolant?
2 - Radiator Debris?
3 - Leaks?
4 - Air Burp?
5 - Lower Radiator Hose Spring?
6 - Electric Fan?
7 - Thermostat?
8 - Water Pump?
9 - Fan Clutch?
Rodding out a radiator
http://youtu.be/c5Ghuq6habE
Good video showing inside & cross-section of radiator
http://youtu.be/A65613TaWYw
Practical and well-done radiator cleaning video
http://youtu.be/p66bxOH9q68
=====
I haven't found a sketch showing the inside of this particular radiator, but
if it's like others, I'm guess there's a large blockage mid-way down either
the inlet or outlet side. I can't imagine half of the cooling tubes being
blocked or the whole tank being half full of sludge. Anyone have an idea
how to try and clear it? I'm hesitant to use any chemicals, no knowing what
is causing the blockage. I'm not able to do a pressure flush under the
shade tree.
++++++++++++++++++++++++
Water enters the radiator from the top hose, and exits the radiator from the
bottom hose. A blockage anywhere is a blockage everywhere. That is, there is
no blockage that is on the inlet side or on the outlet side, there is only a
blockage. This is always true because no matter the water level, there is
always water at the bottom even if there is no water at the top.
You are forgetting, the Aerostar, like most relatively current
vehicles, uses a CROSS FLOW rad. The bottom tubes will block first due
to sediment. If it is hot at the top, and cold below, the rad is
blocked badly. For the cost of having a rad "rodded out" today, you
can buy a brand new aftermarket rad - and you are going to have to
remove it either way. Remove it ONCE.
Post by Guv Bob
You said the car is overheating, then you said it isn't overheating bad. I'm
not sure what theat means. How do you know it is overheating? What makes you
think it is overheating?
If your engine is transverse mounted (sideways) then you do not have a fan
clutch because the fan is driven electrically.
There has never been a transverse engine AEROSTAR. It is a rear wheel
drive, old-school TRUCK.
Post by Guv Bob
Coolant cleanliness, or the lack of it, has no bearing on how well it cools.
It tells you more about the general health of the system, but not the
efficiency of it. Having said that, very dirty coolant means there is much
corrosion, and this is a bad sign. The coolant does not cool less, but the
corrosion shows that the system might be clogged.
Water pump or t-stat issues are the leading cause of cooling system issues.
But these components should cause dramatic overheating troubles, not
troubles that can be described as, "not bad."
Which a restricted radiator WILL do. Moderate overheating under light
load in cool weather, which will turn into drastic overheating under
load in hot weather, particularly at low speeds.
I've owned 2 Aerostars - there have been 6 in the family, and being a
mechanic I ended up working on most of them
Post by Guv Bob
Personally, you appear to be throwing stuff against the wall to see what
sticks. Your testing and theories have not uncovered any indication of
overheating. Well, not any that I have seen.
The fact that the top of the rad is hot and the rest cold would point
towards a cooling problem
Thanks Jeff & Clare. You guys are great instructors. I suspected the fan clutch just checking how it spins cold and hot and already have the new one on hand. Warranty replacement so no cost there.
I was expecting radiators to be more like $200-300, but if they are that cheap, replacing is definitely the way to go.
Forgot to mention - as well as being a mechanic since 1969, I was also
an automotive mechanics instructor at both secondary school and trade
level ------
By your postings, I'm not surprised. You have my highest respect. My experience is with instrumentation and control panels in process plants (power stations, water plants, etc.). Mostly DC, low level AC and fluid flow. I'm an expert at "holy smokes, what did I get into now!" situations. You can probably tell I over-research stuff and read everything I can before taking something apart. I learned from my dad long, long ago how to take things apart systematically -- and sometimes even put them back together again!
But, and this is a big butt... auto mechanics is a whole different ball game, especially these days where you can get to everything except what you need to work on. I would never tell anybody I was a mechanic. And the lovely wife will vouch for that - plus comment about my low level skills in carpentry and plumbing.
Well, I grew up the son of a carpenter/electrician/farmer. I worked on
the farm as a teenager, then did my mechanic's apprenticeship at a
general repair garage/farm equipment dealer. During my highschool
years and beyond I also repaired and rebuilt old tube radios Then I
worked for a Toyota dealership and an AMC/Jeep/IHC truck dealer - then
taught high school auto shop. Then I went to Africa and taught auto
shop at trade school (Livingstone Trades Training Institute, Zambia),
Came back and worked at a Canadian Tire shop, the industrial
equipment, then ran service bays at 2 service stations, the service
manager for Toyota dealership (same one). I took a correspondense
course in microcomputers from NRI, then worked for a local computer
manufacturer - putting CD ROMs on the network back before CD ROM was
mainstream. After 5 years there I went off on my own in the computer
service/IT business. For the last 14 years I've also been building an
airplane, and all my life I've owned/worked on/enjoyed antique cars -
and for several years I squeazed in competitive navigational rallying
(as driver) at championship level. And raised two GREAT daughters with
the help of my beautiful wife.
Steve W.
2014-04-25 04:21:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Guv Bob
My 97 Aerostar is overheating (see my endless postings...) and I'm
finally getting to checking it out. Not overheating bad, but I now
have time to spend on it. Anyway....
I got the engine up to temperature -- about 2/3 of the gauge.
Checked the air flow at the grill and it's getting plenty of air
being pulled in. So that likely says the fan clutch is at least
working.
Then I shut it off and removed the fan shroud. The fins were hot
enough to burn for the top 6-7 inches all the way left and right,
then very cold from there down - I'd say 80 degrees F or less. The
border between hot and cold areas was instant -- no gradual cooling.
Anyway, any ideas what's going on? Does that sound like a plugged
radiator? Have to break for SUPPER now.... will search online if I'm
still awake after a BIG dessert. =OD
Bob
Radiator is junk. You're getting about 1/3 of it to cool the engine.

Since it is clogged I would also suspect the heater core is getting that
way. First, order /buy a new radiator and hoses (if they originals they
are due) New thermostat. New coolant. Two bottles of cooling system
flush. Now start draining the system. Look over the heater core
connections and disconnect the input line. Connect up a garden hose to
that and disconnect the return line. Run the return into a bucket and
turn on the water. The first gallon or so will be mostly coolant, after
that you can just let it run till it's clear. Loop a hose across the
heater connections on the engine. Remove the thermostat. Now add the
cooling system flush and follow the directions. Once you're done, drain
the system and flush the engine with water. Now swap out the radiator
and hoses, install the new thermostat, reconnect the heater core fill
the engine with new coolant.

Doing it this way should clean out the system. Most of the flushing
chemicals are acids. If possible you don't want to run them through an
older heater core, you could end up with a leak.
--
Steve W.
Guv Bob
2014-04-27 18:43:47 UTC
Permalink
What about throwing a couple of spoons full of automatic dishwasher detergent in the radiator, letting it run for few days and then draining & flushing it? Seems like that would get the oil & grease, without the acid that radiator flush products have.
Steve W.
2014-04-27 22:16:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Guv Bob
What about throwing a couple of spoons full of automatic dishwasher
detergent in the radiator, letting it run for few days and then
draining & flushing it? Seems like that would get the oil & grease,
without the acid that radiator flush products have.
Oil&grease are usually not the problem. It is the rust and scale from
the water in the coolant that plugs things up. The acid breaks it free
and dissolves it so it flushes out of the system. Only catch is that
most heater cores are made of thin metal compared to the radiator, The
acid could dissolve the one piece of scale covering the pinhole you
don't know about...
--
Steve W.
Ed Pawlowski
2014-04-27 22:52:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve W.
Post by Guv Bob
What about throwing a couple of spoons full of automatic dishwasher
detergent in the radiator, letting it run for few days and then
draining & flushing it? Seems like that would get the oil & grease,
without the acid that radiator flush products have.
Oil&grease are usually not the problem. It is the rust and scale from
the water in the coolant that plugs things up. The acid breaks it free
and dissolves it so it flushes out of the system. Only catch is that
most heater cores are made of thin metal compared to the radiator, The
acid could dissolve the one piece of scale covering the pinhole you
don't know about...
It can also let scale loose that will travel to the heater core and
block the smaller passages.
Guv Bob
2014-04-28 01:55:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ed Pawlowski
Post by Steve W.
Post by Guv Bob
What about throwing a couple of spoons full of automatic dishwasher
detergent in the radiator, letting it run for few days and then
draining & flushing it? Seems like that would get the oil & grease,
without the acid that radiator flush products have.
Oil&grease are usually not the problem. It is the rust and scale from
the water in the coolant that plugs things up. The acid breaks it free
and dissolves it so it flushes out of the system. Only catch is that
most heater cores are made of thin metal compared to the radiator, The
acid could dissolve the one piece of scale covering the pinhole you
don't know about...
It can also let scale loose that will travel to the heater core and
block the smaller passages.
What about bypassing the heater core and flushing the rest of the system with water with or without detergent? I'm hesitant to use the commercial flush since someone said it contains acid.

New radiator will be here this week. I went out to drain the radiator today, took the rad cap off and unscrewed the petcock all the way and nothing came out. I guess that pretty much tells the story.

I have to say though, that this is the original 1997 radiator and it had enough capacity to cool even with half the tubes blocked.
Steve W.
2014-04-28 04:05:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Guv Bob
On Sun, 27 Apr 2014 18:16:26 -0400, "Steve W."
Post by Steve W.
Post by Guv Bob
What about throwing a couple of spoons full of automatic
dishwasher detergent in the radiator, letting it run for few
days and then draining & flushing it? Seems like that would
get the oil & grease, without the acid that radiator flush
products have.
Oil&grease are usually not the problem. It is the rust and scale
from the water in the coolant that plugs things up. The acid
breaks it free and dissolves it so it flushes out of the system.
Only catch is that most heater cores are made of thin metal
compared to the radiator, The acid could dissolve the one piece
of scale covering the pinhole you don't know about...
It can also let scale loose that will travel to the heater core and
block the smaller passages.
What about bypassing the heater core and flushing the rest of the
system with water with or without detergent? I'm hesitant to use the
commercial flush since someone said it contains acid.
New radiator will be here this week. I went out to drain the
radiator today, took the rad cap off and unscrewed the petcock all
the way and nothing came out. I guess that pretty much tells the
story.
I have to say though, that this is the original 1997 radiator and it
had enough capacity to cool even with half the tubes blocked.
That is exactly what I suggested. Bypass the core (but flush it in
reverse with clean water. Then flush the engine with the old rad. in
place. Then when you swap the new one in flush the engine with clear
water before you connect the new one just to make sure it's clean and
you don't end up with any loose crud in the new rad.
--
Steve W.
Guv Bob
2014-04-28 06:38:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve W.
Post by Guv Bob
On Sun, 27 Apr 2014 18:16:26 -0400, "Steve W."
Post by Steve W.
Post by Guv Bob
What about throwing a couple of spoons full of automatic
dishwasher detergent in the radiator, letting it run for few
days and then draining & flushing it? Seems like that would
get the oil & grease, without the acid that radiator flush
products have.
Oil&grease are usually not the problem. It is the rust and scale
from the water in the coolant that plugs things up. The acid
breaks it free and dissolves it so it flushes out of the system.
Only catch is that most heater cores are made of thin metal
compared to the radiator, The acid could dissolve the one piece
of scale covering the pinhole you don't know about...
It can also let scale loose that will travel to the heater core and
block the smaller passages.
What about bypassing the heater core and flushing the rest of the
system with water with or without detergent? I'm hesitant to use the
commercial flush since someone said it contains acid.
New radiator will be here this week. I went out to drain the
radiator today, took the rad cap off and unscrewed the petcock all
the way and nothing came out. I guess that pretty much tells the
story.
I have to say though, that this is the original 1997 radiator and it
had enough capacity to cool even with half the tubes blocked.
That is exactly what I suggested. Bypass the core (but flush it in
reverse with clean water. Then flush the engine with the old rad. in
place. Then when you swap the new one in flush the engine with clear
water before you connect the new one just to make sure it's clean and
you don't end up with any loose crud in the new rad.
--
Steve W.
Is it worthwhile putting a little detergent in the water?
Steve W.
2014-04-28 06:24:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Guv Bob
Post by Steve W.
Post by Guv Bob
On Sun, 27 Apr 2014 18:16:26 -0400, "Steve W."
Post by Steve W.
Post by Guv Bob
What about throwing a couple of spoons full of automatic
dishwasher detergent in the radiator, letting it run for few
days and then draining & flushing it? Seems like that would
get the oil & grease, without the acid that radiator flush
products have.
Oil&grease are usually not the problem. It is the rust and scale
from the water in the coolant that plugs things up. The acid
breaks it free and dissolves it so it flushes out of the system.
Only catch is that most heater cores are made of thin metal
compared to the radiator, The acid could dissolve the one piece
of scale covering the pinhole you don't know about...
It can also let scale loose that will travel to the heater core and
block the smaller passages.
What about bypassing the heater core and flushing the rest of the
system with water with or without detergent? I'm hesitant to use the
commercial flush since someone said it contains acid.
New radiator will be here this week. I went out to drain the
radiator today, took the rad cap off and unscrewed the petcock all
the way and nothing came out. I guess that pretty much tells the
story.
I have to say though, that this is the original 1997 radiator and it
had enough capacity to cool even with half the tubes blocked.
That is exactly what I suggested. Bypass the core (but flush it in
reverse with clean water. Then flush the engine with the old rad. in
place. Then when you swap the new one in flush the engine with clear
water before you connect the new one just to make sure it's clean and
you don't end up with any loose crud in the new rad.
--
Steve W.
Is it worthwhile putting a little detergent in the water?
Not unless you had something leaking oil/trans fluid into the coolant.
The flush itself will clean out the crud. The last flush of clean water
is just to make sure all the flush is gone as well as anything that
might have come out of the old rad.

If you follow the steps it's simple.
Pull the heater hoses, reverse flush the heater core with water.
loop a hose to bypass the heater core, pull the thermostat, and dump in
the cooling system flush. Let that circulate a while to break up and
clean the system.
Pull the radiator hoses and drop the old coolant/flush and crud. Stick
the hose in the top rad hose and let it run to flush the block.
Install the new radiator, Thermostat and re-connect the heater. Fill the
system and burp it. Enjoy a cooler running car.
--
Steve W.
Guv Bob
2014-04-28 15:17:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve W.
Post by Guv Bob
Post by Steve W.
Post by Guv Bob
On Sun, 27 Apr 2014 18:16:26 -0400, "Steve W."
Post by Steve W.
Post by Guv Bob
What about throwing a couple of spoons full of automatic
dishwasher detergent in the radiator, letting it run for few
days and then draining & flushing it? Seems like that would
get the oil & grease, without the acid that radiator flush
products have.
Oil&grease are usually not the problem. It is the rust and scale
from the water in the coolant that plugs things up. The acid
breaks it free and dissolves it so it flushes out of the system.
Only catch is that most heater cores are made of thin metal
compared to the radiator, The acid could dissolve the one piece
of scale covering the pinhole you don't know about...
It can also let scale loose that will travel to the heater core and
block the smaller passages.
What about bypassing the heater core and flushing the rest of the
system with water with or without detergent? I'm hesitant to use the
commercial flush since someone said it contains acid.
New radiator will be here this week. I went out to drain the
radiator today, took the rad cap off and unscrewed the petcock all
the way and nothing came out. I guess that pretty much tells the
story.
I have to say though, that this is the original 1997 radiator and it
had enough capacity to cool even with half the tubes blocked.
That is exactly what I suggested. Bypass the core (but flush it in
reverse with clean water. Then flush the engine with the old rad. in
place. Then when you swap the new one in flush the engine with clear
water before you connect the new one just to make sure it's clean and
you don't end up with any loose crud in the new rad.
--
Steve W.
Is it worthwhile putting a little detergent in the water?
Not unless you had something leaking oil/trans fluid into the coolant.
The flush itself will clean out the crud. The last flush of clean water
is just to make sure all the flush is gone as well as anything that
might have come out of the old rad.
If you follow the steps it's simple.
Pull the heater hoses, reverse flush the heater core with water.
loop a hose to bypass the heater core, pull the thermostat, and dump in
the cooling system flush. Let that circulate a while to break up and
clean the system.
Pull the radiator hoses and drop the old coolant/flush and crud. Stick
the hose in the top rad hose and let it run to flush the block.
Install the new radiator, Thermostat and re-connect the heater. Fill the
system and burp it. Enjoy a cooler running car.
--
Steve W.
The flush you're talking about - does that contain acid?
Steve W.
2014-04-28 16:11:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Guv Bob
Post by Steve W.
Post by Guv Bob
Post by Steve W.
Post by Guv Bob
On Sun, 27 Apr 2014 18:16:26 -0400, "Steve W."
Post by Steve W.
Post by Guv Bob
What about throwing a couple of spoons full of automatic
dishwasher detergent in the radiator, letting it run for few
days and then draining & flushing it? Seems like that would
get the oil & grease, without the acid that radiator flush
products have.
Oil&grease are usually not the problem. It is the rust and scale
from the water in the coolant that plugs things up. The acid
breaks it free and dissolves it so it flushes out of the system.
Only catch is that most heater cores are made of thin metal
compared to the radiator, The acid could dissolve the one piece
of scale covering the pinhole you don't know about...
It can also let scale loose that will travel to the heater core and
block the smaller passages.
What about bypassing the heater core and flushing the rest of the
system with water with or without detergent? I'm hesitant to use the
commercial flush since someone said it contains acid.
New radiator will be here this week. I went out to drain the
radiator today, took the rad cap off and unscrewed the petcock all
the way and nothing came out. I guess that pretty much tells the
story.
I have to say though, that this is the original 1997 radiator and it
had enough capacity to cool even with half the tubes blocked.
That is exactly what I suggested. Bypass the core (but flush it in
reverse with clean water. Then flush the engine with the old rad. in
place. Then when you swap the new one in flush the engine with clear
water before you connect the new one just to make sure it's clean and
you don't end up with any loose crud in the new rad.
--
Steve W.
Is it worthwhile putting a little detergent in the water?
Not unless you had something leaking oil/trans fluid into the coolant.
The flush itself will clean out the crud. The last flush of clean water
is just to make sure all the flush is gone as well as anything that
might have come out of the old rad.
If you follow the steps it's simple.
Pull the heater hoses, reverse flush the heater core with water.
loop a hose to bypass the heater core, pull the thermostat, and dump in
the cooling system flush. Let that circulate a while to break up and
clean the system.
Pull the radiator hoses and drop the old coolant/flush and crud. Stick
the hose in the top rad hose and let it run to flush the block.
Install the new radiator, Thermostat and re-connect the heater. Fill the
system and burp it. Enjoy a cooler running car.
--
Steve W.
The flush you're talking about - does that contain acid?
Yes. Almost as acidic as vinegar. Nothing to hurt the system but I don't
like running it through the heater core.
--
Steve W.
c***@snyder.on.ca
2014-04-28 17:47:33 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 28 Apr 2014 07:17:49 -0800, "Guv Bob"
Post by Guv Bob
Post by Steve W.
Post by Guv Bob
Post by Steve W.
Post by Guv Bob
On Sun, 27 Apr 2014 18:16:26 -0400, "Steve W."
Post by Steve W.
Post by Guv Bob
What about throwing a couple of spoons full of automatic
dishwasher detergent in the radiator, letting it run for few
days and then draining & flushing it? Seems like that would
get the oil & grease, without the acid that radiator flush
products have.
Oil&grease are usually not the problem. It is the rust and scale
from the water in the coolant that plugs things up. The acid
breaks it free and dissolves it so it flushes out of the system.
Only catch is that most heater cores are made of thin metal
compared to the radiator, The acid could dissolve the one piece
of scale covering the pinhole you don't know about...
It can also let scale loose that will travel to the heater core and
block the smaller passages.
What about bypassing the heater core and flushing the rest of the
system with water with or without detergent? I'm hesitant to use the
commercial flush since someone said it contains acid.
New radiator will be here this week. I went out to drain the
radiator today, took the rad cap off and unscrewed the petcock all
the way and nothing came out. I guess that pretty much tells the
story.
I have to say though, that this is the original 1997 radiator and it
had enough capacity to cool even with half the tubes blocked.
That is exactly what I suggested. Bypass the core (but flush it in
reverse with clean water. Then flush the engine with the old rad. in
place. Then when you swap the new one in flush the engine with clear
water before you connect the new one just to make sure it's clean and
you don't end up with any loose crud in the new rad.
--
Steve W.
Is it worthwhile putting a little detergent in the water?
Not unless you had something leaking oil/trans fluid into the coolant.
The flush itself will clean out the crud. The last flush of clean water
is just to make sure all the flush is gone as well as anything that
might have come out of the old rad.
If you follow the steps it's simple.
Pull the heater hoses, reverse flush the heater core with water.
loop a hose to bypass the heater core, pull the thermostat, and dump in
the cooling system flush. Let that circulate a while to break up and
clean the system.
Pull the radiator hoses and drop the old coolant/flush and crud. Stick
the hose in the top rad hose and let it run to flush the block.
Install the new radiator, Thermostat and re-connect the heater. Fill the
system and burp it. Enjoy a cooler running car.
--
Steve W.
The flush you're talking about - does that contain acid?
Many good radiator flushed are caustic rather than acidic. A lot of
the older style cleaners used oxalic acid.

Many truck shops are using Cascade automatic dishwasher detergent with
dawn. Disolve fully in very hot water and add to cooling system, run
untill hot, drain and flush. 1/4 cup should be more than enough for
your Ford.
Cascade is caustic.
Guv Bob
2014-04-29 07:38:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
On Mon, 28 Apr 2014 07:17:49 -0800, "Guv Bob"
Post by Guv Bob
Post by Steve W.
Post by Guv Bob
Post by Steve W.
Post by Guv Bob
On Sun, 27 Apr 2014 18:16:26 -0400, "Steve W."
Post by Steve W.
Post by Guv Bob
What about throwing a couple of spoons full of automatic
dishwasher detergent in the radiator, letting it run for few
days and then draining & flushing it? Seems like that would
get the oil & grease, without the acid that radiator flush
products have.
Oil&grease are usually not the problem. It is the rust and scale
from the water in the coolant that plugs things up. The acid
breaks it free and dissolves it so it flushes out of the system.
Only catch is that most heater cores are made of thin metal
compared to the radiator, The acid could dissolve the one piece
of scale covering the pinhole you don't know about...
It can also let scale loose that will travel to the heater core and
block the smaller passages.
What about bypassing the heater core and flushing the rest of the
system with water with or without detergent? I'm hesitant to use the
commercial flush since someone said it contains acid.
New radiator will be here this week. I went out to drain the
radiator today, took the rad cap off and unscrewed the petcock all
the way and nothing came out. I guess that pretty much tells the
story.
I have to say though, that this is the original 1997 radiator and it
had enough capacity to cool even with half the tubes blocked.
That is exactly what I suggested. Bypass the core (but flush it in
reverse with clean water. Then flush the engine with the old rad. in
place. Then when you swap the new one in flush the engine with clear
water before you connect the new one just to make sure it's clean and
you don't end up with any loose crud in the new rad.
--
Steve W.
Is it worthwhile putting a little detergent in the water?
Not unless you had something leaking oil/trans fluid into the coolant.
The flush itself will clean out the crud. The last flush of clean water
is just to make sure all the flush is gone as well as anything that
might have come out of the old rad.
If you follow the steps it's simple.
Pull the heater hoses, reverse flush the heater core with water.
loop a hose to bypass the heater core, pull the thermostat, and dump in
the cooling system flush. Let that circulate a while to break up and
clean the system.
Pull the radiator hoses and drop the old coolant/flush and crud. Stick
the hose in the top rad hose and let it run to flush the block.
Install the new radiator, Thermostat and re-connect the heater. Fill the
system and burp it. Enjoy a cooler running car.
--
Steve W.
The flush you're talking about - does that contain acid?
Many good radiator flushed are caustic rather than acidic. A lot of
the older style cleaners used oxalic acid.
Many truck shops are using Cascade automatic dishwasher detergent with
dawn. Disolve fully in very hot water and add to cooling system, run
untill hot, drain and flush. 1/4 cup should be more than enough for
your Ford.
Cascade is caustic.
Thanks. I'm thinking about leaving the thermostat in during the flush. It's a bear getting it out. Last time I sheared off one of the bolts.
Jeff Strickland
2014-04-29 15:23:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
On Mon, 28 Apr 2014 07:17:49 -0800, "Guv Bob"
Post by Guv Bob
Post by Steve W.
Post by Guv Bob
Post by Steve W.
Post by Guv Bob
On Sun, 27 Apr 2014 18:16:26 -0400, "Steve W."
Post by Steve W.
Post by Guv Bob
What about throwing a couple of spoons full of automatic
dishwasher detergent in the radiator, letting it run for few
days and then draining & flushing it? Seems like that would
get the oil & grease, without the acid that radiator flush
products have.
Oil&grease are usually not the problem. It is the rust and scale
from the water in the coolant that plugs things up. The acid
breaks it free and dissolves it so it flushes out of the system.
Only catch is that most heater cores are made of thin metal
compared to the radiator, The acid could dissolve the one piece
of scale covering the pinhole you don't know about...
It can also let scale loose that will travel to the heater core and
block the smaller passages.
What about bypassing the heater core and flushing the rest of the
system with water with or without detergent? I'm hesitant to use the
commercial flush since someone said it contains acid.
New radiator will be here this week. I went out to drain the
radiator today, took the rad cap off and unscrewed the petcock all
the way and nothing came out. I guess that pretty much tells the
story.
I have to say though, that this is the original 1997 radiator and it
had enough capacity to cool even with half the tubes blocked.
That is exactly what I suggested. Bypass the core (but flush it in
reverse with clean water. Then flush the engine with the old rad. in
place. Then when you swap the new one in flush the engine with clear
water before you connect the new one just to make sure it's clean and
you don't end up with any loose crud in the new rad.
--
Steve W.
Is it worthwhile putting a little detergent in the water?
Not unless you had something leaking oil/trans fluid into the coolant.
The flush itself will clean out the crud. The last flush of clean water
is just to make sure all the flush is gone as well as anything that
might have come out of the old rad.
If you follow the steps it's simple.
Pull the heater hoses, reverse flush the heater core with water.
loop a hose to bypass the heater core, pull the thermostat, and dump in
the cooling system flush. Let that circulate a while to break up and
clean the system.
Pull the radiator hoses and drop the old coolant/flush and crud. Stick
the hose in the top rad hose and let it run to flush the block.
Install the new radiator, Thermostat and re-connect the heater. Fill the
system and burp it. Enjoy a cooler running car.
--
Steve W.
The flush you're talking about - does that contain acid?
Many good radiator flushed are caustic rather than acidic. A lot of
the older style cleaners used oxalic acid.
Many truck shops are using Cascade automatic dishwasher detergent with
dawn. Disolve fully in very hot water and add to cooling system, run
untill hot, drain and flush. 1/4 cup should be more than enough for
your Ford.
Cascade is caustic.
Thanks. I'm thinking about leaving the thermostat in during the flush.
It's a bear getting it out. Last time I sheared off one of the bolts.

+++++++++++++++++++++++
You can pull the hoses and flush the radiator without touching the t-stat,
but if you want to flush the block too then the t-stat will be in the way.
You can also disconnect the heater hoses where they connect to the engine
and flush water through the heater.

For all of the questions here, you might be better off if you take the car
to the shop.
Guv Bob
2014-04-30 18:24:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Guv Bob
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
On Mon, 28 Apr 2014 07:17:49 -0800, "Guv Bob"
Post by Guv Bob
Post by Steve W.
Post by Guv Bob
Post by Steve W.
Post by Guv Bob
On Sun, 27 Apr 2014 18:16:26 -0400, "Steve W."
Post by Steve W.
Post by Guv Bob
What about throwing a couple of spoons full of automatic
dishwasher detergent in the radiator, letting it run for few
days and then draining & flushing it? Seems like that would
get the oil & grease, without the acid that radiator flush
products have.
Oil&grease are usually not the problem. It is the rust and scale
from the water in the coolant that plugs things up. The acid
breaks it free and dissolves it so it flushes out of the system.
Only catch is that most heater cores are made of thin metal
compared to the radiator, The acid could dissolve the one piece
of scale covering the pinhole you don't know about...
It can also let scale loose that will travel to the heater core and
block the smaller passages.
What about bypassing the heater core and flushing the rest of the
system with water with or without detergent? I'm hesitant to use the
commercial flush since someone said it contains acid.
New radiator will be here this week. I went out to drain the
radiator today, took the rad cap off and unscrewed the petcock all
the way and nothing came out. I guess that pretty much tells the
story.
I have to say though, that this is the original 1997 radiator and it
had enough capacity to cool even with half the tubes blocked.
That is exactly what I suggested. Bypass the core (but flush it in
reverse with clean water. Then flush the engine with the old rad. in
place. Then when you swap the new one in flush the engine with clear
water before you connect the new one just to make sure it's clean and
you don't end up with any loose crud in the new rad.
--
Steve W.
Is it worthwhile putting a little detergent in the water?
Not unless you had something leaking oil/trans fluid into the coolant.
The flush itself will clean out the crud. The last flush of clean water
is just to make sure all the flush is gone as well as anything that
might have come out of the old rad.
If you follow the steps it's simple.
Pull the heater hoses, reverse flush the heater core with water.
loop a hose to bypass the heater core, pull the thermostat, and dump in
the cooling system flush. Let that circulate a while to break up and
clean the system.
Pull the radiator hoses and drop the old coolant/flush and crud. Stick
the hose in the top rad hose and let it run to flush the block.
Install the new radiator, Thermostat and re-connect the heater. Fill the
system and burp it. Enjoy a cooler running car.
--
Steve W.
The flush you're talking about - does that contain acid?
Many good radiator flushed are caustic rather than acidic. A lot of
the older style cleaners used oxalic acid.
Many truck shops are using Cascade automatic dishwasher detergent with
dawn. Disolve fully in very hot water and add to cooling system, run
untill hot, drain and flush. 1/4 cup should be more than enough for
your Ford.
Cascade is caustic.
Thanks. I'm thinking about leaving the thermostat in during the flush.
It's a bear getting it out. Last time I sheared off one of the bolts.
+++++++++++++++++++++++
You can pull the hoses and flush the radiator without touching the t-stat,
but if you want to flush the block too then the t-stat will be in the way.
You can also disconnect the heater hoses where they connect to the engine
and flush water through the heater.
For all of the questions here, you might be better off if you take the car
to the shop.
Yes, that is definitely the better choice. Budget is a little tight right now and the long-time radiator place went out of business this year. Autozone life-time radiator is $100 plus they send you a $25 gift card. New unknown shop cost total is $275++ with 90 day warranty P/L. Normally that's OK, but right now, I'm eating beans until some $$ comes in.
c***@snyder.on.ca
2014-04-30 01:30:29 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 28 Apr 2014 23:38:45 -0800, "Guv Bob"
Post by Guv Bob
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
On Mon, 28 Apr 2014 07:17:49 -0800, "Guv Bob"
Post by Guv Bob
Post by Steve W.
Post by Guv Bob
Post by Steve W.
Post by Guv Bob
On Sun, 27 Apr 2014 18:16:26 -0400, "Steve W."
Post by Steve W.
Post by Guv Bob
What about throwing a couple of spoons full of automatic
dishwasher detergent in the radiator, letting it run for few
days and then draining & flushing it? Seems like that would
get the oil & grease, without the acid that radiator flush
products have.
Oil&grease are usually not the problem. It is the rust and scale
from the water in the coolant that plugs things up. The acid
breaks it free and dissolves it so it flushes out of the system.
Only catch is that most heater cores are made of thin metal
compared to the radiator, The acid could dissolve the one piece
of scale covering the pinhole you don't know about...
It can also let scale loose that will travel to the heater core and
block the smaller passages.
What about bypassing the heater core and flushing the rest of the
system with water with or without detergent? I'm hesitant to use the
commercial flush since someone said it contains acid.
New radiator will be here this week. I went out to drain the
radiator today, took the rad cap off and unscrewed the petcock all
the way and nothing came out. I guess that pretty much tells the
story.
I have to say though, that this is the original 1997 radiator and it
had enough capacity to cool even with half the tubes blocked.
That is exactly what I suggested. Bypass the core (but flush it in
reverse with clean water. Then flush the engine with the old rad. in
place. Then when you swap the new one in flush the engine with clear
water before you connect the new one just to make sure it's clean and
you don't end up with any loose crud in the new rad.
--
Steve W.
Is it worthwhile putting a little detergent in the water?
Not unless you had something leaking oil/trans fluid into the coolant.
The flush itself will clean out the crud. The last flush of clean water
is just to make sure all the flush is gone as well as anything that
might have come out of the old rad.
If you follow the steps it's simple.
Pull the heater hoses, reverse flush the heater core with water.
loop a hose to bypass the heater core, pull the thermostat, and dump in
the cooling system flush. Let that circulate a while to break up and
clean the system.
Pull the radiator hoses and drop the old coolant/flush and crud. Stick
the hose in the top rad hose and let it run to flush the block.
Install the new radiator, Thermostat and re-connect the heater. Fill the
system and burp it. Enjoy a cooler running car.
--
Steve W.
The flush you're talking about - does that contain acid?
Many good radiator flushed are caustic rather than acidic. A lot of
the older style cleaners used oxalic acid.
Many truck shops are using Cascade automatic dishwasher detergent with
dawn. Disolve fully in very hot water and add to cooling system, run
untill hot, drain and flush. 1/4 cup should be more than enough for
your Ford.
Cascade is caustic.
Thanks. I'm thinking about leaving the thermostat in during the flush. It's a bear getting it out. Last time I sheared off one of the bolts.
I would recommend pulling the stat (also recommend anti-sieze on the
stat bolts!!) but you CAN flush through the heater hoses.. Not nearly
as easy or effective.
Guv Bob
2014-04-30 18:03:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
On Mon, 28 Apr 2014 23:38:45 -0800, "Guv Bob"
Post by Guv Bob
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
On Mon, 28 Apr 2014 07:17:49 -0800, "Guv Bob"
Post by Guv Bob
Post by Steve W.
Post by Guv Bob
Post by Steve W.
Post by Guv Bob
On Sun, 27 Apr 2014 18:16:26 -0400, "Steve W."
Post by Steve W.
Post by Guv Bob
What about throwing a couple of spoons full of automatic
dishwasher detergent in the radiator, letting it run for few
days and then draining & flushing it? Seems like that would
get the oil & grease, without the acid that radiator flush
products have.
Oil&grease are usually not the problem. It is the rust and scale
from the water in the coolant that plugs things up. The acid
breaks it free and dissolves it so it flushes out of the system.
Only catch is that most heater cores are made of thin metal
compared to the radiator, The acid could dissolve the one piece
of scale covering the pinhole you don't know about...
It can also let scale loose that will travel to the heater core and
block the smaller passages.
What about bypassing the heater core and flushing the rest of the
system with water with or without detergent? I'm hesitant to use the
commercial flush since someone said it contains acid.
New radiator will be here this week. I went out to drain the
radiator today, took the rad cap off and unscrewed the petcock all
the way and nothing came out. I guess that pretty much tells the
story.
I have to say though, that this is the original 1997 radiator and it
had enough capacity to cool even with half the tubes blocked.
That is exactly what I suggested. Bypass the core (but flush it in
reverse with clean water. Then flush the engine with the old rad. in
place. Then when you swap the new one in flush the engine with clear
water before you connect the new one just to make sure it's clean and
you don't end up with any loose crud in the new rad.
--
Steve W.
Is it worthwhile putting a little detergent in the water?
Not unless you had something leaking oil/trans fluid into the coolant.
The flush itself will clean out the crud. The last flush of clean water
is just to make sure all the flush is gone as well as anything that
might have come out of the old rad.
If you follow the steps it's simple.
Pull the heater hoses, reverse flush the heater core with water.
loop a hose to bypass the heater core, pull the thermostat, and dump in
the cooling system flush. Let that circulate a while to break up and
clean the system.
Pull the radiator hoses and drop the old coolant/flush and crud. Stick
the hose in the top rad hose and let it run to flush the block.
Install the new radiator, Thermostat and re-connect the heater. Fill the
system and burp it. Enjoy a cooler running car.
--
Steve W.
The flush you're talking about - does that contain acid?
Many good radiator flushed are caustic rather than acidic. A lot of
the older style cleaners used oxalic acid.
Many truck shops are using Cascade automatic dishwasher detergent with
dawn. Disolve fully in very hot water and add to cooling system, run
untill hot, drain and flush. 1/4 cup should be more than enough for
your Ford.
Cascade is caustic.
Thanks. I'm thinking about leaving the thermostat in during the flush. It's a bear getting it out. Last time I sheared off one of the bolts.
I would recommend pulling the stat (also recommend anti-sieze on the
stat bolts!!) but you CAN flush through the heater hoses.. Not nearly
as easy or effective.
Yeah, I know about greasing bolts. From the looks of the thermostat, that was the first time the housing had been removed since 97. Original thermostat turned out to be fine, by the way....
Guv Bob
2014-05-02 02:06:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
On Mon, 28 Apr 2014 23:38:45 -0800, "Guv Bob"
Post by Guv Bob
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
On Mon, 28 Apr 2014 07:17:49 -0800, "Guv Bob"
Post by Guv Bob
Post by Steve W.
Post by Guv Bob
Post by Steve W.
Post by Guv Bob
On Sun, 27 Apr 2014 18:16:26 -0400, "Steve W."
Post by Steve W.
Post by Guv Bob
What about throwing a couple of spoons full of automatic
dishwasher detergent in the radiator, letting it run for few
days and then draining & flushing it? Seems like that would
get the oil & grease, without the acid that radiator flush
products have.
Oil&grease are usually not the problem. It is the rust and scale
from the water in the coolant that plugs things up. The acid
breaks it free and dissolves it so it flushes out of the system.
Only catch is that most heater cores are made of thin metal
compared to the radiator, The acid could dissolve the one piece
of scale covering the pinhole you don't know about...
It can also let scale loose that will travel to the heater core and
block the smaller passages.
What about bypassing the heater core and flushing the rest of the
system with water with or without detergent? I'm hesitant to use the
commercial flush since someone said it contains acid.
New radiator will be here this week. I went out to drain the
radiator today, took the rad cap off and unscrewed the petcock all
the way and nothing came out. I guess that pretty much tells the
story.
I have to say though, that this is the original 1997 radiator and it
had enough capacity to cool even with half the tubes blocked.
That is exactly what I suggested. Bypass the core (but flush it in
reverse with clean water. Then flush the engine with the old rad. in
place. Then when you swap the new one in flush the engine with clear
water before you connect the new one just to make sure it's clean and
you don't end up with any loose crud in the new rad.
--
Steve W.
Is it worthwhile putting a little detergent in the water?
Not unless you had something leaking oil/trans fluid into the coolant.
The flush itself will clean out the crud. The last flush of clean water
is just to make sure all the flush is gone as well as anything that
might have come out of the old rad.
If you follow the steps it's simple.
Pull the heater hoses, reverse flush the heater core with water.
loop a hose to bypass the heater core, pull the thermostat, and dump in
the cooling system flush. Let that circulate a while to break up and
clean the system.
Pull the radiator hoses and drop the old coolant/flush and crud. Stick
the hose in the top rad hose and let it run to flush the block.
Install the new radiator, Thermostat and re-connect the heater. Fill the
system and burp it. Enjoy a cooler running car.
--
Steve W.
The flush you're talking about - does that contain acid?
Many good radiator flushed are caustic rather than acidic. A lot of
the older style cleaners used oxalic acid.
Many truck shops are using Cascade automatic dishwasher detergent with
dawn. Disolve fully in very hot water and add to cooling system, run
untill hot, drain and flush. 1/4 cup should be more than enough for
your Ford.
Cascade is caustic.
Thanks. I'm thinking about leaving the thermostat in during the flush. It's a bear getting it out. Last time I sheared off one of the bolts.
I would recommend pulling the stat (also recommend anti-sieze on the
stat bolts!!) but you CAN flush through the heater hoses.. Not nearly
as easy or effective.
Yeah, I know about greasing bolts. From the looks of the thermostat, that was the first time the housing had been removed since 97. Original thermostat turned out to be fine, by the way....

---

Well, I got to Steps 1 & 2. The radiator came today and I put it in the garage. Developing.....
Guv Bob
2014-05-03 23:18:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
On Mon, 28 Apr 2014 07:17:49 -0800, "Guv Bob"
Post by Guv Bob
Post by Steve W.
Post by Guv Bob
Post by Steve W.
Post by Guv Bob
On Sun, 27 Apr 2014 18:16:26 -0400, "Steve W."
Post by Steve W.
Post by Guv Bob
What about throwing a couple of spoons full of automatic
dishwasher detergent in the radiator, letting it run for few
days and then draining & flushing it? Seems like that would
get the oil & grease, without the acid that radiator flush
products have.
Oil&grease are usually not the problem. It is the rust and scale
from the water in the coolant that plugs things up. The acid
breaks it free and dissolves it so it flushes out of the system.
Only catch is that most heater cores are made of thin metal
compared to the radiator, The acid could dissolve the one piece
of scale covering the pinhole you don't know about...
It can also let scale loose that will travel to the heater core and
block the smaller passages.
What about bypassing the heater core and flushing the rest of the
system with water with or without detergent? I'm hesitant to use the
commercial flush since someone said it contains acid.
New radiator will be here this week. I went out to drain the
radiator today, took the rad cap off and unscrewed the petcock all
the way and nothing came out. I guess that pretty much tells the
story.
I have to say though, that this is the original 1997 radiator and it
had enough capacity to cool even with half the tubes blocked.
That is exactly what I suggested. Bypass the core (but flush it in
reverse with clean water. Then flush the engine with the old rad. in
place. Then when you swap the new one in flush the engine with clear
water before you connect the new one just to make sure it's clean and
you don't end up with any loose crud in the new rad.
--
Steve W.
Is it worthwhile putting a little detergent in the water?
Not unless you had something leaking oil/trans fluid into the coolant.
The flush itself will clean out the crud. The last flush of clean water
is just to make sure all the flush is gone as well as anything that
might have come out of the old rad.
If you follow the steps it's simple.
Pull the heater hoses, reverse flush the heater core with water.
loop a hose to bypass the heater core, pull the thermostat, and dump in
the cooling system flush. Let that circulate a while to break up and
clean the system.
Pull the radiator hoses and drop the old coolant/flush and crud. Stick
the hose in the top rad hose and let it run to flush the block.
Install the new radiator, Thermostat and re-connect the heater. Fill the
system and burp it. Enjoy a cooler running car.
--
Steve W.
The flush you're talking about - does that contain acid?
Many good radiator flushed are caustic rather than acidic. A lot of
the older style cleaners used oxalic acid.
Many truck shops are using Cascade automatic dishwasher detergent with
dawn. Disolve fully in very hot water and add to cooling system, run
untill hot, drain and flush. 1/4 cup should be more than enough for
your Ford.
Cascade is caustic.
Can anyone recommend a particular brand of flush that is not acid? Autozone here only carries Prestone and the lable lists it as having "citric acid." I'm hesistating getting that because I just want to clean the sludge out, not remove rust.

Only other place around me is O'Reillys. So if they only have acid types, I'll add some dishwashing powder and run it for a few days. Any negatives about that?
c***@snyder.on.ca
2014-05-04 02:57:39 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 3 May 2014 15:18:45 -0800, "Guv Bob"
Post by Guv Bob
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
On Mon, 28 Apr 2014 07:17:49 -0800, "Guv Bob"
Post by Guv Bob
Post by Steve W.
Post by Guv Bob
Post by Steve W.
Post by Guv Bob
On Sun, 27 Apr 2014 18:16:26 -0400, "Steve W."
Post by Steve W.
Post by Guv Bob
What about throwing a couple of spoons full of automatic
dishwasher detergent in the radiator, letting it run for few
days and then draining & flushing it? Seems like that would
get the oil & grease, without the acid that radiator flush
products have.
Oil&grease are usually not the problem. It is the rust and scale
from the water in the coolant that plugs things up. The acid
breaks it free and dissolves it so it flushes out of the system.
Only catch is that most heater cores are made of thin metal
compared to the radiator, The acid could dissolve the one piece
of scale covering the pinhole you don't know about...
It can also let scale loose that will travel to the heater core and
block the smaller passages.
What about bypassing the heater core and flushing the rest of the
system with water with or without detergent? I'm hesitant to use the
commercial flush since someone said it contains acid.
New radiator will be here this week. I went out to drain the
radiator today, took the rad cap off and unscrewed the petcock all
the way and nothing came out. I guess that pretty much tells the
story.
I have to say though, that this is the original 1997 radiator and it
had enough capacity to cool even with half the tubes blocked.
That is exactly what I suggested. Bypass the core (but flush it in
reverse with clean water. Then flush the engine with the old rad. in
place. Then when you swap the new one in flush the engine with clear
water before you connect the new one just to make sure it's clean and
you don't end up with any loose crud in the new rad.
--
Steve W.
Is it worthwhile putting a little detergent in the water?
Not unless you had something leaking oil/trans fluid into the coolant.
The flush itself will clean out the crud. The last flush of clean water
is just to make sure all the flush is gone as well as anything that
might have come out of the old rad.
If you follow the steps it's simple.
Pull the heater hoses, reverse flush the heater core with water.
loop a hose to bypass the heater core, pull the thermostat, and dump in
the cooling system flush. Let that circulate a while to break up and
clean the system.
Pull the radiator hoses and drop the old coolant/flush and crud. Stick
the hose in the top rad hose and let it run to flush the block.
Install the new radiator, Thermostat and re-connect the heater. Fill the
system and burp it. Enjoy a cooler running car.
--
Steve W.
The flush you're talking about - does that contain acid?
Many good radiator flushed are caustic rather than acidic. A lot of
the older style cleaners used oxalic acid.
Many truck shops are using Cascade automatic dishwasher detergent with
dawn. Disolve fully in very hot water and add to cooling system, run
untill hot, drain and flush. 1/4 cup should be more than enough for
your Ford.
Cascade is caustic.
Can anyone recommend a particular brand of flush that is not acid? Autozone here only carries Prestone and the lable lists it as having "citric acid." I'm hesistating getting that because I just want to clean the sludge out, not remove rust.
Only other place around me is O'Reillys. So if they only have acid types, I'll add some dishwashing powder and run it for a few days. Any negatives about that?
Citric acid is pretty mild - but I'd try the dishwasher detergent for
half an hour or so at operating temp as a first try.
Guv Bob
2014-05-04 17:02:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
On Sat, 3 May 2014 15:18:45 -0800, "Guv Bob"
Post by Guv Bob
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
On Mon, 28 Apr 2014 07:17:49 -0800, "Guv Bob"
Post by Guv Bob
Post by Steve W.
Post by Guv Bob
Post by Steve W.
Post by Guv Bob
On Sun, 27 Apr 2014 18:16:26 -0400, "Steve W."
Post by Steve W.
Post by Guv Bob
What about throwing a couple of spoons full of automatic
dishwasher detergent in the radiator, letting it run for few
days and then draining & flushing it? Seems like that would
get the oil & grease, without the acid that radiator flush
products have.
Oil&grease are usually not the problem. It is the rust and scale
from the water in the coolant that plugs things up. The acid
breaks it free and dissolves it so it flushes out of the system.
Only catch is that most heater cores are made of thin metal
compared to the radiator, The acid could dissolve the one piece
of scale covering the pinhole you don't know about...
It can also let scale loose that will travel to the heater core and
block the smaller passages.
What about bypassing the heater core and flushing the rest of the
system with water with or without detergent? I'm hesitant to use the
commercial flush since someone said it contains acid.
New radiator will be here this week. I went out to drain the
radiator today, took the rad cap off and unscrewed the petcock all
the way and nothing came out. I guess that pretty much tells the
story.
I have to say though, that this is the original 1997 radiator and it
had enough capacity to cool even with half the tubes blocked.
That is exactly what I suggested. Bypass the core (but flush it in
reverse with clean water. Then flush the engine with the old rad. in
place. Then when you swap the new one in flush the engine with clear
water before you connect the new one just to make sure it's clean and
you don't end up with any loose crud in the new rad.
--
Steve W.
Is it worthwhile putting a little detergent in the water?
Not unless you had something leaking oil/trans fluid into the coolant.
The flush itself will clean out the crud. The last flush of clean water
is just to make sure all the flush is gone as well as anything that
might have come out of the old rad.
If you follow the steps it's simple.
Pull the heater hoses, reverse flush the heater core with water.
loop a hose to bypass the heater core, pull the thermostat, and dump in
the cooling system flush. Let that circulate a while to break up and
clean the system.
Pull the radiator hoses and drop the old coolant/flush and crud. Stick
the hose in the top rad hose and let it run to flush the block.
Install the new radiator, Thermostat and re-connect the heater. Fill the
system and burp it. Enjoy a cooler running car.
--
Steve W.
The flush you're talking about - does that contain acid?
Many good radiator flushed are caustic rather than acidic. A lot of
the older style cleaners used oxalic acid.
Many truck shops are using Cascade automatic dishwasher detergent with
dawn. Disolve fully in very hot water and add to cooling system, run
untill hot, drain and flush. 1/4 cup should be more than enough for
your Ford.
Cascade is caustic.
Can anyone recommend a particular brand of flush that is not acid? Autozone here only carries Prestone and the lable lists it as having "citric acid." I'm hesistating getting that because I just want to clean the sludge out, not remove rust.
Only other place around me is O'Reillys. So if they only have acid types, I'll add some dishwashing powder and run it for a few days. Any negatives about that?
Citric acid is pretty mild - but I'd try the dishwasher detergent for
half an hour or so at operating temp as a first try.
Another mechanic buddy recommended adding a box of baking soda. Sounds like a good idea for a sound system. But not knowing how mine is right now, I'll stick with the soap and water flush and see how it holds up in 6 months.
c***@snyder.on.ca
2014-05-04 18:04:09 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 4 May 2014 09:02:32 -0800, "Guv Bob"
Post by Guv Bob
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
On Sat, 3 May 2014 15:18:45 -0800, "Guv Bob"
Post by Guv Bob
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
On Mon, 28 Apr 2014 07:17:49 -0800, "Guv Bob"
Post by Guv Bob
Post by Steve W.
Post by Guv Bob
Post by Steve W.
Post by Guv Bob
On Sun, 27 Apr 2014 18:16:26 -0400, "Steve W."
Post by Steve W.
Post by Guv Bob
What about throwing a couple of spoons full of automatic
dishwasher detergent in the radiator, letting it run for few
days and then draining & flushing it? Seems like that would
get the oil & grease, without the acid that radiator flush
products have.
Oil&grease are usually not the problem. It is the rust and scale
from the water in the coolant that plugs things up. The acid
breaks it free and dissolves it so it flushes out of the system.
Only catch is that most heater cores are made of thin metal
compared to the radiator, The acid could dissolve the one piece
of scale covering the pinhole you don't know about...
It can also let scale loose that will travel to the heater core and
block the smaller passages.
What about bypassing the heater core and flushing the rest of the
system with water with or without detergent? I'm hesitant to use the
commercial flush since someone said it contains acid.
New radiator will be here this week. I went out to drain the
radiator today, took the rad cap off and unscrewed the petcock all
the way and nothing came out. I guess that pretty much tells the
story.
I have to say though, that this is the original 1997 radiator and it
had enough capacity to cool even with half the tubes blocked.
That is exactly what I suggested. Bypass the core (but flush it in
reverse with clean water. Then flush the engine with the old rad. in
place. Then when you swap the new one in flush the engine with clear
water before you connect the new one just to make sure it's clean and
you don't end up with any loose crud in the new rad.
--
Steve W.
Is it worthwhile putting a little detergent in the water?
Not unless you had something leaking oil/trans fluid into the coolant.
The flush itself will clean out the crud. The last flush of clean water
is just to make sure all the flush is gone as well as anything that
might have come out of the old rad.
If you follow the steps it's simple.
Pull the heater hoses, reverse flush the heater core with water.
loop a hose to bypass the heater core, pull the thermostat, and dump in
the cooling system flush. Let that circulate a while to break up and
clean the system.
Pull the radiator hoses and drop the old coolant/flush and crud. Stick
the hose in the top rad hose and let it run to flush the block.
Install the new radiator, Thermostat and re-connect the heater. Fill the
system and burp it. Enjoy a cooler running car.
--
Steve W.
The flush you're talking about - does that contain acid?
Many good radiator flushed are caustic rather than acidic. A lot of
the older style cleaners used oxalic acid.
Many truck shops are using Cascade automatic dishwasher detergent with
dawn. Disolve fully in very hot water and add to cooling system, run
untill hot, drain and flush. 1/4 cup should be more than enough for
your Ford.
Cascade is caustic.
Can anyone recommend a particular brand of flush that is not acid? Autozone here only carries Prestone and the lable lists it as having "citric acid." I'm hesistating getting that because I just want to clean the sludge out, not remove rust.
Only other place around me is O'Reillys. So if they only have acid types, I'll add some dishwashing powder and run it for a few days. Any negatives about that?
Citric acid is pretty mild - but I'd try the dishwasher detergent for
half an hour or so at operating temp as a first try.
Another mechanic buddy recommended adding a box of baking soda. Sounds like a good idea for a sound system. But not knowing how mine is right now, I'll stick with the soap and water flush and see how it holds up in 6 months.
Adding baking soda neutralizes the acid. You can do this AFTER an acid
flush. If you put it in with the flush it will make the flush
ineffective, and blow all the water out of the rad as it fizzes up!!

You also want to make sure the pH of your coolant is within range when
you are done. Too high (alkaline) and the rad will scale up. Too low
(acid)and it will corrode. You want it within a few points of neutral.
Add the buffer in small amounts, recheching after a few minutes of
running to make sure the mixture is complety mixed.

A good idea to check pH annually and correct. This extends the life of
the coolant SIGNIFICANTLY by avoiding corrosion and scaling.
Guv Bob
2014-05-05 06:18:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
On Sun, 4 May 2014 09:02:32 -0800, "Guv Bob"
Post by Guv Bob
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
On Sat, 3 May 2014 15:18:45 -0800, "Guv Bob"
Post by Guv Bob
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
On Mon, 28 Apr 2014 07:17:49 -0800, "Guv Bob"
Post by Guv Bob
Post by Steve W.
Post by Guv Bob
Post by Steve W.
Post by Guv Bob
On Sun, 27 Apr 2014 18:16:26 -0400, "Steve W."
Post by Steve W.
Post by Guv Bob
What about throwing a couple of spoons full of automatic
dishwasher detergent in the radiator, letting it run for few
days and then draining & flushing it? Seems like that would
get the oil & grease, without the acid that radiator flush
products have.
Oil&grease are usually not the problem. It is the rust and scale
from the water in the coolant that plugs things up. The acid
breaks it free and dissolves it so it flushes out of the system.
Only catch is that most heater cores are made of thin metal
compared to the radiator, The acid could dissolve the one piece
of scale covering the pinhole you don't know about...
It can also let scale loose that will travel to the heater core and
block the smaller passages.
What about bypassing the heater core and flushing the rest of the
system with water with or without detergent? I'm hesitant to use the
commercial flush since someone said it contains acid.
New radiator will be here this week. I went out to drain the
radiator today, took the rad cap off and unscrewed the petcock all
the way and nothing came out. I guess that pretty much tells the
story.
I have to say though, that this is the original 1997 radiator and it
had enough capacity to cool even with half the tubes blocked.
That is exactly what I suggested. Bypass the core (but flush it in
reverse with clean water. Then flush the engine with the old rad. in
place. Then when you swap the new one in flush the engine with clear
water before you connect the new one just to make sure it's clean and
you don't end up with any loose crud in the new rad.
--
Steve W.
Is it worthwhile putting a little detergent in the water?
Not unless you had something leaking oil/trans fluid into the coolant.
The flush itself will clean out the crud. The last flush of clean water
is just to make sure all the flush is gone as well as anything that
might have come out of the old rad.
If you follow the steps it's simple.
Pull the heater hoses, reverse flush the heater core with water.
loop a hose to bypass the heater core, pull the thermostat, and dump in
the cooling system flush. Let that circulate a while to break up and
clean the system.
Pull the radiator hoses and drop the old coolant/flush and crud. Stick
the hose in the top rad hose and let it run to flush the block.
Install the new radiator, Thermostat and re-connect the heater. Fill the
system and burp it. Enjoy a cooler running car.
--
Steve W.
The flush you're talking about - does that contain acid?
Many good radiator flushed are caustic rather than acidic. A lot of
the older style cleaners used oxalic acid.
Many truck shops are using Cascade automatic dishwasher detergent with
dawn. Disolve fully in very hot water and add to cooling system, run
untill hot, drain and flush. 1/4 cup should be more than enough for
your Ford.
Cascade is caustic.
Can anyone recommend a particular brand of flush that is not acid? Autozone here only carries Prestone and the lable lists it as having "citric acid." I'm hesistating getting that because I just want to clean the sludge out, not remove rust.
Only other place around me is O'Reillys. So if they only have acid types, I'll add some dishwashing powder and run it for a few days. Any negatives about that?
Citric acid is pretty mild - but I'd try the dishwasher detergent for
half an hour or so at operating temp as a first try.
Another mechanic buddy recommended adding a box of baking soda. Sounds like a good idea for a sound system. But not knowing how mine is right now, I'll stick with the soap and water flush and see how it holds up in 6 months.
Adding baking soda neutralizes the acid. You can do this AFTER an acid
flush. If you put it in with the flush it will make the flush
ineffective, and blow all the water out of the rad as it fizzes up!!
You also want to make sure the pH of your coolant is within range when
you are done. Too high (alkaline) and the rad will scale up. Too low
(acid)and it will corrode. You want it within a few points of neutral.
Add the buffer in small amounts, recheching after a few minutes of
running to make sure the mixture is complety mixed.
A good idea to check pH annually and correct. This extends the life of
the coolant SIGNIFICANTLY by avoiding corrosion and scaling.
Thanks, where do you find the pH strips? There used to be hobby shops that carried chemistry sets and components like this, but I guess that's considered "hazardous materials" these days.

By the way, I drained the system today and remembered that I had used orange colored coolant last time. I'll used green this time -- easier to see if there's a problem later on.
IYM
2014-05-05 11:41:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Guv Bob
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
On Sun, 4 May 2014 09:02:32 -0800, "Guv Bob"
Post by Guv Bob
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
On Sat, 3 May 2014 15:18:45 -0800, "Guv Bob"
Post by Guv Bob
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
On Mon, 28 Apr 2014 07:17:49 -0800, "Guv Bob"
Post by Guv Bob
Post by Steve W.
Post by Guv Bob
Post by Steve W.
Post by Guv Bob
On Sun, 27 Apr 2014 18:16:26 -0400, "Steve W."
Post by Steve W.
Post by Guv Bob
What about throwing a couple of spoons full of automatic
dishwasher detergent in the radiator, letting it run for few
days and then draining & flushing it? Seems like that would
get the oil & grease, without the acid that radiator flush
products have.
Oil&grease are usually not the problem. It is the rust and scale
from the water in the coolant that plugs things up. The acid
breaks it free and dissolves it so it flushes out of the system.
Only catch is that most heater cores are made of thin metal
compared to the radiator, The acid could dissolve the one piece
of scale covering the pinhole you don't know about...
It can also let scale loose that will travel to the heater core and
block the smaller passages.
What about bypassing the heater core and flushing the rest of the
system with water with or without detergent? I'm hesitant to use the
commercial flush since someone said it contains acid.
New radiator will be here this week. I went out to drain the
radiator today, took the rad cap off and unscrewed the petcock all
the way and nothing came out. I guess that pretty much tells the
story.
I have to say though, that this is the original 1997 radiator and it
had enough capacity to cool even with half the tubes blocked.
That is exactly what I suggested. Bypass the core (but flush it in
reverse with clean water. Then flush the engine with the old rad. in
place. Then when you swap the new one in flush the engine with clear
water before you connect the new one just to make sure it's clean and
you don't end up with any loose crud in the new rad.
--
Steve W.
Is it worthwhile putting a little detergent in the water?
Not unless you had something leaking oil/trans fluid into the coolant.
The flush itself will clean out the crud. The last flush of clean water
is just to make sure all the flush is gone as well as anything that
might have come out of the old rad.
If you follow the steps it's simple.
Pull the heater hoses, reverse flush the heater core with water.
loop a hose to bypass the heater core, pull the thermostat, and dump in
the cooling system flush. Let that circulate a while to break up and
clean the system.
Pull the radiator hoses and drop the old coolant/flush and crud. Stick
the hose in the top rad hose and let it run to flush the block.
Install the new radiator, Thermostat and re-connect the heater. Fill the
system and burp it. Enjoy a cooler running car.
--
Steve W.
The flush you're talking about - does that contain acid?
Many good radiator flushed are caustic rather than acidic. A lot of
the older style cleaners used oxalic acid.
Many truck shops are using Cascade automatic dishwasher detergent with
dawn. Disolve fully in very hot water and add to cooling system, run
untill hot, drain and flush. 1/4 cup should be more than enough for
your Ford.
Cascade is caustic.
Can anyone recommend a particular brand of flush that is not acid? Autozone here only carries Prestone and the lable lists it as having "citric acid." I'm hesistating getting that because I just want to clean the sludge out, not remove rust.
Only other place around me is O'Reillys. So if they only have acid types, I'll add some dishwashing powder and run it for a few days. Any negatives about that?
Citric acid is pretty mild - but I'd try the dishwasher detergent for
half an hour or so at operating temp as a first try.
Another mechanic buddy recommended adding a box of baking soda. Sounds like a good idea for a sound system. But not knowing how mine is right now, I'll stick with the soap and water flush and see how it holds up in 6 months.
Adding baking soda neutralizes the acid. You can do this AFTER an acid
flush. If you put it in with the flush it will make the flush
ineffective, and blow all the water out of the rad as it fizzes up!!
You also want to make sure the pH of your coolant is within range when
you are done. Too high (alkaline) and the rad will scale up. Too low
(acid)and it will corrode. You want it within a few points of neutral.
Add the buffer in small amounts, recheching after a few minutes of
running to make sure the mixture is complety mixed.
A good idea to check pH annually and correct. This extends the life of
the coolant SIGNIFICANTLY by avoiding corrosion and scaling.
Thanks, where do you find the pH strips? There used to be hobby shops that carried chemistry sets and components like this, but I guess that's considered "hazardous materials" these days.
By the way, I drained the system today and remembered that I had used orange colored coolant last time. I'll used green this time -- easier to see if there's a problem later on.
Pool Supply stores...They can come in a plastic bottle that looks like a
aspirin bottle...They only cost a few bucks for a ton of them (meant to
check pool water PH every day) so you might want to look for a small qty.

If you yearn for the good 'ol days, you can get the chemistry type pool
set...Those are the ones where you fill the tube up, put a few drops of
the PH dye in, shake and hold it up in the sun to compare the color to
the color chart mounted next to it...

There are all sorts of ways to waste you $$ :)
c***@snyder.on.ca
2014-05-05 20:58:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by IYM
Post by Guv Bob
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
On Sun, 4 May 2014 09:02:32 -0800, "Guv Bob"
Post by Guv Bob
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
On Sat, 3 May 2014 15:18:45 -0800, "Guv Bob"
Post by Guv Bob
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
On Mon, 28 Apr 2014 07:17:49 -0800, "Guv Bob"
Post by Guv Bob
Post by Steve W.
Post by Guv Bob
Post by Steve W.
Post by Guv Bob
On Sun, 27 Apr 2014 18:16:26 -0400, "Steve W."
Post by Steve W.
Post by Guv Bob
What about throwing a couple of spoons full of automatic
dishwasher detergent in the radiator, letting it run for few
days and then draining & flushing it? Seems like that would
get the oil & grease, without the acid that radiator flush
products have.
Oil&grease are usually not the problem. It is the rust and scale
from the water in the coolant that plugs things up. The acid
breaks it free and dissolves it so it flushes out of the system.
Only catch is that most heater cores are made of thin metal
compared to the radiator, The acid could dissolve the one piece
of scale covering the pinhole you don't know about...
It can also let scale loose that will travel to the heater core and
block the smaller passages.
What about bypassing the heater core and flushing the rest of the
system with water with or without detergent? I'm hesitant to use the
commercial flush since someone said it contains acid.
New radiator will be here this week. I went out to drain the
radiator today, took the rad cap off and unscrewed the petcock all
the way and nothing came out. I guess that pretty much tells the
story.
I have to say though, that this is the original 1997 radiator and it
had enough capacity to cool even with half the tubes blocked.
That is exactly what I suggested. Bypass the core (but flush it in
reverse with clean water. Then flush the engine with the old rad. in
place. Then when you swap the new one in flush the engine with clear
water before you connect the new one just to make sure it's clean and
you don't end up with any loose crud in the new rad.
--
Steve W.
Is it worthwhile putting a little detergent in the water?
Not unless you had something leaking oil/trans fluid into the coolant.
The flush itself will clean out the crud. The last flush of clean water
is just to make sure all the flush is gone as well as anything that
might have come out of the old rad.
If you follow the steps it's simple.
Pull the heater hoses, reverse flush the heater core with water.
loop a hose to bypass the heater core, pull the thermostat, and dump in
the cooling system flush. Let that circulate a while to break up and
clean the system.
Pull the radiator hoses and drop the old coolant/flush and crud. Stick
the hose in the top rad hose and let it run to flush the block.
Install the new radiator, Thermostat and re-connect the heater. Fill the
system and burp it. Enjoy a cooler running car.
--
Steve W.
The flush you're talking about - does that contain acid?
Many good radiator flushed are caustic rather than acidic. A lot of
the older style cleaners used oxalic acid.
Many truck shops are using Cascade automatic dishwasher detergent with
dawn. Disolve fully in very hot water and add to cooling system, run
untill hot, drain and flush. 1/4 cup should be more than enough for
your Ford.
Cascade is caustic.
Can anyone recommend a particular brand of flush that is not acid? Autozone here only carries Prestone and the lable lists it as having "citric acid." I'm hesistating getting that because I just want to clean the sludge out, not remove rust.
Only other place around me is O'Reillys. So if they only have acid types, I'll add some dishwashing powder and run it for a few days. Any negatives about that?
Citric acid is pretty mild - but I'd try the dishwasher detergent for
half an hour or so at operating temp as a first try.
Another mechanic buddy recommended adding a box of baking soda. Sounds like a good idea for a sound system. But not knowing how mine is right now, I'll stick with the soap and water flush and see how it holds up in 6 months.
Adding baking soda neutralizes the acid. You can do this AFTER an acid
flush. If you put it in with the flush it will make the flush
ineffective, and blow all the water out of the rad as it fizzes up!!
You also want to make sure the pH of your coolant is within range when
you are done. Too high (alkaline) and the rad will scale up. Too low
(acid)and it will corrode. You want it within a few points of neutral.
Add the buffer in small amounts, recheching after a few minutes of
running to make sure the mixture is complety mixed.
A good idea to check pH annually and correct. This extends the life of
the coolant SIGNIFICANTLY by avoiding corrosion and scaling.
Thanks, where do you find the pH strips? There used to be hobby shops that carried chemistry sets and components like this, but I guess that's considered "hazardous materials" these days.
By the way, I drained the system today and remembered that I had used orange colored coolant last time. I'll used green this time -- easier to see if there's a problem later on.
Pool Supply stores...They can come in a plastic bottle that looks like a
aspirin bottle...They only cost a few bucks for a ton of them (meant to
check pool water PH every day) so you might want to look for a small qty.
If you yearn for the good 'ol days, you can get the chemistry type pool
set...Those are the ones where you fill the tube up, put a few drops of
the PH dye in, shake and hold it up in the sun to compare the color to
the color chart mounted next to it...
There are all sorts of ways to waste you $$ :)
The "titration" kit is more accurate than the strips, but more fuss.
Terminal Crazy
2014-05-05 17:59:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Guv Bob
By the way, I drained the system today and remembered that I had used
orange colored coolant last time. I'll used green this time -- easier
to see if there's a problem later on.
Bob I think the Orange coolant might be a GM long life (dexcool maybe?).

I seem to recall if you mix it with the green (old style antifreeze) it
turns into a brown sludge. I've swapped coolant types and seen the
results without lots of flushing first. It just looks like chocolate sauce.

HTH Mitch
--
Terminal_Crazy

Mitch - 1995 Z28 LT1 M6 ***@sand-hill.freeserve.co.uk
Lancashire England http://www.sand-hill.freeserve.co.uk/terminal_crazy/
Guv Bob
2014-05-05 20:09:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Terminal Crazy
Post by Guv Bob
By the way, I drained the system today and remembered that I had used
orange colored coolant last time. I'll used green this time -- easier
to see if there's a problem later on.
Bob I think the Orange coolant might be a GM long life (dexcool maybe?).
I seem to recall if you mix it with the green (old style antifreeze) it
turns into a brown sludge. I've swapped coolant types and seen the
results without lots of flushing first. It just looks like chocolate sauce.
HTH Mitch
That's exactly what this looks like. I looked at a gallon that has been sitting for a couple of weeks. It's clear but the color of dark ice tea. I remember that the label said "can be used with any...." Will stick with green this time.
c***@snyder.on.ca
2014-05-05 20:59:14 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 05 May 2014 18:59:57 +0100, Terminal Crazy
Post by Terminal Crazy
Post by Guv Bob
By the way, I drained the system today and remembered that I had used
orange colored coolant last time. I'll used green this time -- easier
to see if there's a problem later on.
Bob I think the Orange coolant might be a GM long life (dexcool maybe?).
I seem to recall if you mix it with the green (old style antifreeze) it
turns into a brown sludge. I've swapped coolant types and seen the
results without lots of flushing first. It just looks like chocolate sauce.
HTH Mitch
There is a "pink" coolant that was used by Toyota and lots of other
manufacturers that is NOT dexcool, or dexcool compatible.

Dexcool is just a difficult way to spell trouble.
c***@snyder.on.ca
2014-05-05 20:57:06 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 4 May 2014 22:18:38 -0800, "Guv Bob"
Post by Guv Bob
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
On Sun, 4 May 2014 09:02:32 -0800, "Guv Bob"
Post by Guv Bob
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
On Sat, 3 May 2014 15:18:45 -0800, "Guv Bob"
Post by Guv Bob
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
On Mon, 28 Apr 2014 07:17:49 -0800, "Guv Bob"
Post by Guv Bob
Post by Steve W.
Post by Guv Bob
Post by Steve W.
Post by Guv Bob
On Sun, 27 Apr 2014 18:16:26 -0400, "Steve W."
Post by Steve W.
Post by Guv Bob
What about throwing a couple of spoons full of automatic
dishwasher detergent in the radiator, letting it run for few
days and then draining & flushing it? Seems like that would
get the oil & grease, without the acid that radiator flush
products have.
Oil&grease are usually not the problem. It is the rust and scale
from the water in the coolant that plugs things up. The acid
breaks it free and dissolves it so it flushes out of the system.
Only catch is that most heater cores are made of thin metal
compared to the radiator, The acid could dissolve the one piece
of scale covering the pinhole you don't know about...
It can also let scale loose that will travel to the heater core and
block the smaller passages.
What about bypassing the heater core and flushing the rest of the
system with water with or without detergent? I'm hesitant to use the
commercial flush since someone said it contains acid.
New radiator will be here this week. I went out to drain the
radiator today, took the rad cap off and unscrewed the petcock all
the way and nothing came out. I guess that pretty much tells the
story.
I have to say though, that this is the original 1997 radiator and it
had enough capacity to cool even with half the tubes blocked.
That is exactly what I suggested. Bypass the core (but flush it in
reverse with clean water. Then flush the engine with the old rad. in
place. Then when you swap the new one in flush the engine with clear
water before you connect the new one just to make sure it's clean and
you don't end up with any loose crud in the new rad.
--
Steve W.
Is it worthwhile putting a little detergent in the water?
Not unless you had something leaking oil/trans fluid into the coolant.
The flush itself will clean out the crud. The last flush of clean water
is just to make sure all the flush is gone as well as anything that
might have come out of the old rad.
If you follow the steps it's simple.
Pull the heater hoses, reverse flush the heater core with water.
loop a hose to bypass the heater core, pull the thermostat, and dump in
the cooling system flush. Let that circulate a while to break up and
clean the system.
Pull the radiator hoses and drop the old coolant/flush and crud. Stick
the hose in the top rad hose and let it run to flush the block.
Install the new radiator, Thermostat and re-connect the heater. Fill the
system and burp it. Enjoy a cooler running car.
--
Steve W.
The flush you're talking about - does that contain acid?
Many good radiator flushed are caustic rather than acidic. A lot of
the older style cleaners used oxalic acid.
Many truck shops are using Cascade automatic dishwasher detergent with
dawn. Disolve fully in very hot water and add to cooling system, run
untill hot, drain and flush. 1/4 cup should be more than enough for
your Ford.
Cascade is caustic.
Can anyone recommend a particular brand of flush that is not acid? Autozone here only carries Prestone and the lable lists it as having "citric acid." I'm hesistating getting that because I just want to clean the sludge out, not remove rust.
Only other place around me is O'Reillys. So if they only have acid types, I'll add some dishwashing powder and run it for a few days. Any negatives about that?
Citric acid is pretty mild - but I'd try the dishwasher detergent for
half an hour or so at operating temp as a first try.
Another mechanic buddy recommended adding a box of baking soda. Sounds like a good idea for a sound system. But not knowing how mine is right now, I'll stick with the soap and water flush and see how it holds up in 6 months.
Adding baking soda neutralizes the acid. You can do this AFTER an acid
flush. If you put it in with the flush it will make the flush
ineffective, and blow all the water out of the rad as it fizzes up!!
You also want to make sure the pH of your coolant is within range when
you are done. Too high (alkaline) and the rad will scale up. Too low
(acid)and it will corrode. You want it within a few points of neutral.
Add the buffer in small amounts, recheching after a few minutes of
running to make sure the mixture is complety mixed.
A good idea to check pH annually and correct. This extends the life of
the coolant SIGNIFICANTLY by avoiding corrosion and scaling.
Thanks, where do you find the pH strips? There used to be hobby shops that carried chemistry sets and components like this, but I guess that's considered "hazardous materials" these days.
By the way, I drained the system today and remembered that I had used orange colored coolant last time. I'll used green this time -- easier to see if there's a problem later on.
Swimming pool supply or aquarium supply will have ph strips.
Guv Bob
2014-05-05 23:30:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
On Sun, 4 May 2014 22:18:38 -0800, "Guv Bob"
Post by Guv Bob
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
On Sun, 4 May 2014 09:02:32 -0800, "Guv Bob"
Post by Guv Bob
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
On Sat, 3 May 2014 15:18:45 -0800, "Guv Bob"
Post by Guv Bob
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
On Mon, 28 Apr 2014 07:17:49 -0800, "Guv Bob"
Post by Guv Bob
Post by Steve W.
Post by Guv Bob
Post by Steve W.
Post by Guv Bob
On Sun, 27 Apr 2014 18:16:26 -0400, "Steve W."
Post by Steve W.
Post by Guv Bob
What about throwing a couple of spoons full of automatic
dishwasher detergent in the radiator, letting it run for few
days and then draining & flushing it? Seems like that would
get the oil & grease, without the acid that radiator flush
products have.
Oil&grease are usually not the problem. It is the rust and scale
from the water in the coolant that plugs things up. The acid
breaks it free and dissolves it so it flushes out of the system.
Only catch is that most heater cores are made of thin metal
compared to the radiator, The acid could dissolve the one piece
of scale covering the pinhole you don't know about...
It can also let scale loose that will travel to the heater core and
block the smaller passages.
What about bypassing the heater core and flushing the rest of the
system with water with or without detergent? I'm hesitant to use the
commercial flush since someone said it contains acid.
New radiator will be here this week. I went out to drain the
radiator today, took the rad cap off and unscrewed the petcock all
the way and nothing came out. I guess that pretty much tells the
story.
I have to say though, that this is the original 1997 radiator and it
had enough capacity to cool even with half the tubes blocked.
That is exactly what I suggested. Bypass the core (but flush it in
reverse with clean water. Then flush the engine with the old rad. in
place. Then when you swap the new one in flush the engine with clear
water before you connect the new one just to make sure it's clean and
you don't end up with any loose crud in the new rad.
--
Steve W.
Is it worthwhile putting a little detergent in the water?
Not unless you had something leaking oil/trans fluid into the coolant.
The flush itself will clean out the crud. The last flush of clean water
is just to make sure all the flush is gone as well as anything that
might have come out of the old rad.
If you follow the steps it's simple.
Pull the heater hoses, reverse flush the heater core with water.
loop a hose to bypass the heater core, pull the thermostat, and dump in
the cooling system flush. Let that circulate a while to break up and
clean the system.
Pull the radiator hoses and drop the old coolant/flush and crud. Stick
the hose in the top rad hose and let it run to flush the block.
Install the new radiator, Thermostat and re-connect the heater. Fill the
system and burp it. Enjoy a cooler running car.
--
Steve W.
The flush you're talking about - does that contain acid?
Many good radiator flushed are caustic rather than acidic. A lot of
the older style cleaners used oxalic acid.
Many truck shops are using Cascade automatic dishwasher detergent with
dawn. Disolve fully in very hot water and add to cooling system, run
untill hot, drain and flush. 1/4 cup should be more than enough for
your Ford.
Cascade is caustic.
Can anyone recommend a particular brand of flush that is not acid? Autozone here only carries Prestone and the lable lists it as having "citric acid." I'm hesistating getting that because I just want to clean the sludge out, not remove rust.
Only other place around me is O'Reillys. So if they only have acid types, I'll add some dishwashing powder and run it for a few days. Any negatives about that?
Citric acid is pretty mild - but I'd try the dishwasher detergent for
half an hour or so at operating temp as a first try.
Another mechanic buddy recommended adding a box of baking soda. Sounds like a good idea for a sound system. But not knowing how mine is right now, I'll stick with the soap and water flush and see how it holds up in 6 months.
Adding baking soda neutralizes the acid. You can do this AFTER an acid
flush. If you put it in with the flush it will make the flush
ineffective, and blow all the water out of the rad as it fizzes up!!
You also want to make sure the pH of your coolant is within range when
you are done. Too high (alkaline) and the rad will scale up. Too low
(acid)and it will corrode. You want it within a few points of neutral.
Add the buffer in small amounts, recheching after a few minutes of
running to make sure the mixture is complety mixed.
A good idea to check pH annually and correct. This extends the life of
the coolant SIGNIFICANTLY by avoiding corrosion and scaling.
Thanks, where do you find the pH strips? There used to be hobby shops that carried chemistry sets and components like this, but I guess that's considered "hazardous materials" these days.
By the way, I drained the system today and remembered that I had used orange colored coolant last time. I'll used green this time -- easier to see if there's a problem later on.
Swimming pool supply or aquarium supply will have ph strips.
I am on my way! Coincidentally the place is right next to an ice cream store.
c***@snyder.on.ca
2014-05-06 00:45:26 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 5 May 2014 15:30:26 -0800, "Guv Bob"
Post by Guv Bob
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
On Sun, 4 May 2014 22:18:38 -0800, "Guv Bob"
Post by Guv Bob
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
On Sun, 4 May 2014 09:02:32 -0800, "Guv Bob"
Post by Guv Bob
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
On Sat, 3 May 2014 15:18:45 -0800, "Guv Bob"
Post by Guv Bob
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
On Mon, 28 Apr 2014 07:17:49 -0800, "Guv Bob"
Post by Guv Bob
Post by Steve W.
Post by Guv Bob
Post by Steve W.
Post by Guv Bob
On Sun, 27 Apr 2014 18:16:26 -0400, "Steve W."
Post by Steve W.
Post by Guv Bob
What about throwing a couple of spoons full of automatic
dishwasher detergent in the radiator, letting it run for few
days and then draining & flushing it? Seems like that would
get the oil & grease, without the acid that radiator flush
products have.
Oil&grease are usually not the problem. It is the rust and scale
from the water in the coolant that plugs things up. The acid
breaks it free and dissolves it so it flushes out of the system.
Only catch is that most heater cores are made of thin metal
compared to the radiator, The acid could dissolve the one piece
of scale covering the pinhole you don't know about...
It can also let scale loose that will travel to the heater core and
block the smaller passages.
What about bypassing the heater core and flushing the rest of the
system with water with or without detergent? I'm hesitant to use the
commercial flush since someone said it contains acid.
New radiator will be here this week. I went out to drain the
radiator today, took the rad cap off and unscrewed the petcock all
the way and nothing came out. I guess that pretty much tells the
story.
I have to say though, that this is the original 1997 radiator and it
had enough capacity to cool even with half the tubes blocked.
That is exactly what I suggested. Bypass the core (but flush it in
reverse with clean water. Then flush the engine with the old rad. in
place. Then when you swap the new one in flush the engine with clear
water before you connect the new one just to make sure it's clean and
you don't end up with any loose crud in the new rad.
--
Steve W.
Is it worthwhile putting a little detergent in the water?
Not unless you had something leaking oil/trans fluid into the coolant.
The flush itself will clean out the crud. The last flush of clean water
is just to make sure all the flush is gone as well as anything that
might have come out of the old rad.
If you follow the steps it's simple.
Pull the heater hoses, reverse flush the heater core with water.
loop a hose to bypass the heater core, pull the thermostat, and dump in
the cooling system flush. Let that circulate a while to break up and
clean the system.
Pull the radiator hoses and drop the old coolant/flush and crud. Stick
the hose in the top rad hose and let it run to flush the block.
Install the new radiator, Thermostat and re-connect the heater. Fill the
system and burp it. Enjoy a cooler running car.
--
Steve W.
The flush you're talking about - does that contain acid?
Many good radiator flushed are caustic rather than acidic. A lot of
the older style cleaners used oxalic acid.
Many truck shops are using Cascade automatic dishwasher detergent with
dawn. Disolve fully in very hot water and add to cooling system, run
untill hot, drain and flush. 1/4 cup should be more than enough for
your Ford.
Cascade is caustic.
Can anyone recommend a particular brand of flush that is not acid? Autozone here only carries Prestone and the lable lists it as having "citric acid." I'm hesistating getting that because I just want to clean the sludge out, not remove rust.
Only other place around me is O'Reillys. So if they only have acid types, I'll add some dishwashing powder and run it for a few days. Any negatives about that?
Citric acid is pretty mild - but I'd try the dishwasher detergent for
half an hour or so at operating temp as a first try.
Another mechanic buddy recommended adding a box of baking soda. Sounds like a good idea for a sound system. But not knowing how mine is right now, I'll stick with the soap and water flush and see how it holds up in 6 months.
Adding baking soda neutralizes the acid. You can do this AFTER an acid
flush. If you put it in with the flush it will make the flush
ineffective, and blow all the water out of the rad as it fizzes up!!
You also want to make sure the pH of your coolant is within range when
you are done. Too high (alkaline) and the rad will scale up. Too low
(acid)and it will corrode. You want it within a few points of neutral.
Add the buffer in small amounts, recheching after a few minutes of
running to make sure the mixture is complety mixed.
A good idea to check pH annually and correct. This extends the life of
the coolant SIGNIFICANTLY by avoiding corrosion and scaling.
Thanks, where do you find the pH strips? There used to be hobby shops that carried chemistry sets and components like this, but I guess that's considered "hazardous materials" these days.
By the way, I drained the system today and remembered that I had used orange colored coolant last time. I'll used green this time -- easier to see if there's a problem later on.
Swimming pool supply or aquarium supply will have ph strips.
I am on my way! Coincidentally the place is right next to an ice cream store.
Have a cone for me while you are at it.
Guv Bob
2014-05-06 02:49:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
On Mon, 5 May 2014 15:30:26 -0800, "Guv Bob"
Post by Guv Bob
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
On Sun, 4 May 2014 22:18:38 -0800, "Guv Bob"
Post by Guv Bob
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
On Sun, 4 May 2014 09:02:32 -0800, "Guv Bob"
Post by Guv Bob
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
On Sat, 3 May 2014 15:18:45 -0800, "Guv Bob"
Post by Guv Bob
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
On Mon, 28 Apr 2014 07:17:49 -0800, "Guv Bob"
Post by Guv Bob
Post by Steve W.
Post by Guv Bob
Post by Steve W.
Post by Guv Bob
On Sun, 27 Apr 2014 18:16:26 -0400, "Steve W."
Post by Steve W.
Post by Guv Bob
What about throwing a couple of spoons full of automatic
dishwasher detergent in the radiator, letting it run for few
days and then draining & flushing it? Seems like that would
get the oil & grease, without the acid that radiator flush
products have.
Oil&grease are usually not the problem. It is the rust and scale
from the water in the coolant that plugs things up. The acid
breaks it free and dissolves it so it flushes out of the system.
Only catch is that most heater cores are made of thin metal
compared to the radiator, The acid could dissolve the one piece
of scale covering the pinhole you don't know about...
It can also let scale loose that will travel to the heater core and
block the smaller passages.
What about bypassing the heater core and flushing the rest of the
system with water with or without detergent? I'm hesitant to use the
commercial flush since someone said it contains acid.
New radiator will be here this week. I went out to drain the
radiator today, took the rad cap off and unscrewed the petcock all
the way and nothing came out. I guess that pretty much tells the
story.
I have to say though, that this is the original 1997 radiator and it
had enough capacity to cool even with half the tubes blocked.
That is exactly what I suggested. Bypass the core (but flush it in
reverse with clean water. Then flush the engine with the old rad. in
place. Then when you swap the new one in flush the engine with clear
water before you connect the new one just to make sure it's clean and
you don't end up with any loose crud in the new rad.
--
Steve W.
Is it worthwhile putting a little detergent in the water?
Not unless you had something leaking oil/trans fluid into the coolant.
The flush itself will clean out the crud. The last flush of clean water
is just to make sure all the flush is gone as well as anything that
might have come out of the old rad.
If you follow the steps it's simple.
Pull the heater hoses, reverse flush the heater core with water.
loop a hose to bypass the heater core, pull the thermostat, and dump in
the cooling system flush. Let that circulate a while to break up and
clean the system.
Pull the radiator hoses and drop the old coolant/flush and crud. Stick
the hose in the top rad hose and let it run to flush the block.
Install the new radiator, Thermostat and re-connect the heater. Fill the
system and burp it. Enjoy a cooler running car.
--
Steve W.
The flush you're talking about - does that contain acid?
Many good radiator flushed are caustic rather than acidic. A lot of
the older style cleaners used oxalic acid.
Many truck shops are using Cascade automatic dishwasher detergent with
dawn. Disolve fully in very hot water and add to cooling system, run
untill hot, drain and flush. 1/4 cup should be more than enough for
your Ford.
Cascade is caustic.
Can anyone recommend a particular brand of flush that is not acid? Autozone here only carries Prestone and the lable lists it as having "citric acid." I'm hesistating getting that because I just want to clean the sludge out, not remove rust.
Only other place around me is O'Reillys. So if they only have acid types, I'll add some dishwashing powder and run it for a few days. Any negatives about that?
Citric acid is pretty mild - but I'd try the dishwasher detergent for
half an hour or so at operating temp as a first try.
Another mechanic buddy recommended adding a box of baking soda. Sounds like a good idea for a sound system. But not knowing how mine is right now, I'll stick with the soap and water flush and see how it holds up in 6 months.
Adding baking soda neutralizes the acid. You can do this AFTER an acid
flush. If you put it in with the flush it will make the flush
ineffective, and blow all the water out of the rad as it fizzes up!!
You also want to make sure the pH of your coolant is within range when
you are done. Too high (alkaline) and the rad will scale up. Too low
(acid)and it will corrode. You want it within a few points of neutral.
Add the buffer in small amounts, recheching after a few minutes of
running to make sure the mixture is complety mixed.
A good idea to check pH annually and correct. This extends the life of
the coolant SIGNIFICANTLY by avoiding corrosion and scaling.
Thanks, where do you find the pH strips? There used to be hobby shops that carried chemistry sets and components like this, but I guess that's considered "hazardous materials" these days.
By the way, I drained the system today and remembered that I had used orange colored coolant last time. I'll used green this time -- easier to see if there's a problem later on.
Swimming pool supply or aquarium supply will have ph strips.
I am on my way! Coincidentally the place is right next to an ice cream store.
Have a cone for me while you are at it.
Well, the first fish store was out. The 2nd one was closed on Mondays. So that means another trip to the ice cream... er fish store tomorrow.
Steve W.
2014-05-06 09:22:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Guv Bob
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Post by Guv Bob
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Swimming pool supply or aquarium supply will have ph strips.
I am on my way! Coincidentally the place is right next to an ice cream store.
Have a cone for me while you are at it.
Well, the first fish store was out. The 2nd one was closed on
Mondays. So that means another trip to the ice cream... er fish
store tomorrow.
I am sensing that this radiator repair may take a while....
--
Steve W.
Guv Bob
2014-05-07 03:24:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve W.
Post by Guv Bob
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Post by Guv Bob
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Swimming pool supply or aquarium supply will have ph strips.
I am on my way! Coincidentally the place is right next to an ice cream store.
Have a cone for me while you are at it.
Well, the first fish store was out. The 2nd one was closed on
Mondays. So that means another trip to the ice cream... er fish
store tomorrow.
I am sensing that this radiator repair may take a while....
--
Steve W.
LOL!! Yes, this is my tinkering around car, so I'm doing a little tinkering with other things at the same time. Also, I have found that if I get up before Her Majesty does, get out there and grease up real good, it limits the honey-do items I'm qualified to do. And a couple of harmless but well-placed fingerprints on door knobs works like a "do not disturb" sign.

When I started to drain it, the pet crotch (in case there are ladies present) was so clogged it would barely drip out. I cleared the blockage and have drained, refilled & ran it 3 times now with just water. Once it's noticeably clear, I'll flush it good and swap out the radiator.

I have to be extra careful not to drip anything but water due to a city inspector who lives down the street.
Guv Bob
2014-05-19 01:09:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve W.
Post by Guv Bob
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Post by Guv Bob
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Swimming pool supply or aquarium supply will have ph strips.
I am on my way! Coincidentally the place is right next to an ice cream store.
Have a cone for me while you are at it.
Well, the first fish store was out. The 2nd one was closed on
Mondays. So that means another trip to the ice cream... er fish
store tomorrow.
I am sensing that this radiator repair may take a while....
--
Steve W.
LOL!! Yes, this is my tinkering around car, so I'm doing a little tinkering with other things at the same time. Also, I have found that if I get up before Her Majesty does, get out there and grease up real good, it limits the honey-do items I'm qualified to do. And a couple of harmless but well-placed fingerprints on door knobs works like a "do not disturb" sign.

When I started to drain it, the pet crotch (in case there are ladies present) was so clogged it would barely drip out. I cleared the blockage and have drained, refilled & ran it 3 times now with just water. Once it's noticeably clear, I'll flush it good and swap out the radiator.

I have to be extra careful not to drip anything but water due to a city inspector who lives down the street.

===

Well, I finally found a few minutes to slip away from repairs here at the old Hainey place. I drain a few times over the past day or so and last added a cup of Cascade and ran that for a day. Now I'm heading out to flush, replace the radiator, etc., etc. If anybody needs 8 gallons of slightly used might be good premixed & unfiltered coolant, let me know before I send it for recycling.

This is the kind of video I like - reminds me of myself. Have to take some of it with a grain of salt, but still much more useful than the scripted slick ones. I especially like the comment in Part 1 - "just flush it down the drain - sewer companies don't mind"... LOL!! And then the description he added later about - be sure to recycle!


Guv Bob
2014-05-22 23:39:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Guv Bob
Post by Steve W.
Post by Guv Bob
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Post by Guv Bob
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Swimming pool supply or aquarium supply will have ph strips.
I am on my way! Coincidentally the place is right next to an ice cream store.
Have a cone for me while you are at it.
Well, the first fish store was out. The 2nd one was closed on
Mondays. So that means another trip to the ice cream... er fish
store tomorrow.
I am sensing that this radiator repair may take a while....
--
Steve W.
LOL!! Yes, this is my tinkering around car, so I'm doing a little tinkering with other things at the same time. Also, I have found that if I get up before Her Majesty does, get out there and grease up real good, it limits the honey-do items I'm qualified to do. And a couple of harmless but well-placed fingerprints on door knobs works like a "do not disturb" sign.
When I started to drain it, the pet crotch (in case there are ladies present) was so clogged it would barely drip out. I cleared the blockage and have drained, refilled & ran it 3 times now with just water. Once it's noticeably clear, I'll flush it good and swap out the radiator.
I have to be extra careful not to drip anything but water due to a city inspector who lives down the street.
===
Well, I finally found a few minutes to slip away from repairs here at the old Hainey place. I drain a few times over the past day or so and last added a cup of Cascade and ran that for a day. Now I'm heading out to flush, replace the radiator, etc., etc. If anybody needs 8 gallons of slightly used might be good premixed & unfiltered coolant, let me know before I send it for recycling.
This is the kind of video I like - reminds me of myself. Have to take some of it with a grain of salt, but still much more useful than the scripted slick ones. I especially like the comment in Part 1 - "just flush it down the drain - sewer companies don't mind"... LOL!! And then the description he added later about - be sure to recycle!
http://youtu.be/jjnKOPdPxbQ
the sewer is the only place we CAN put coolant here. Not the storm
drain, of course. The sewer. The one we pay a bill for. No recycling
like that.
GW
Thanks for the info - I'll check with the sanitation district tomorrow. If that's OK here, that will save me from hauling 15 gallon jugs to the haz mat place. I despise dealing with the city about anything. They log every time you sneeze these days.

===

Tuesday, I hooked up the flush kit and flushed it out until I ran out of empty buckets and jugs. Ended up with about 24 gallons.

Wednesday I had to use the car, so I filled it up with the cleanest old coolant from last weekend which was clear after I had let the mud settle out. It only took about 7 quarts, so I'm guessing the radiator is still pretty much plugged up.

Today, I was all set to finally take a whirl at this. Looked like a 1-2 hour job until I got to removing the trans fluid connections. Top one came loose fine. Other one is not budging. Will have to drop some penetration fluid on it and let it sit. Any other ideas about getting this loose? I don't want risk breaking the line if I can help it.

Also ran into trouble getting the fan clutch off the water pump shaft. I replaced this once before, and only had to push down on the belt to keep the pulleys from turning. This time, the belt must be looser because it's slipping. Belt dressing I have says not to use it on serpentine belts, so that's out. Manuals say there's a 2nd nut you can use to hold the shaft in place, but I can't see it anywhere. Nothing in front of the pulley for sure, and less than 1/8 in in back of the pulley.

Looks like there's enough room to pull the radiator out without having to remove the fan/clutch. Will try that first - after I get the trans lines both loose.

If I have to take all out, I'm going to look at drilling a 1/8-inch hole in that water pump pulley and one opposite it to balance it. So next time I can stick a rod through one and hold the pulley in place.

Feel free to chime in with all types of advice and insulting comments! Being married, I'm used to all that.

During this adventure, I found and fixed all sorts of vacuum leaks, connections, broken this and that. Enough work to keep me out of the house for weeks!
Guv Bob
2014-05-23 03:40:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Guv Bob
Post by Steve W.
Post by Guv Bob
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Post by Guv Bob
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Swimming pool supply or aquarium supply will have ph strips.
I am on my way! Coincidentally the place is right next to an ice cream store.
Have a cone for me while you are at it.
Well, the first fish store was out. The 2nd one was closed on
Mondays. So that means another trip to the ice cream... er fish
store tomorrow.
I am sensing that this radiator repair may take a while....
--
Steve W.
LOL!! Yes, this is my tinkering around car, so I'm doing a little tinkering with other things at the same time. Also, I have found that if I get up before Her Majesty does, get out there and grease up real good, it limits the honey-do items I'm qualified to do. And a couple of harmless but well-placed fingerprints on door knobs works like a "do not disturb" sign.
When I started to drain it, the pet crotch (in case there are ladies present) was so clogged it would barely drip out. I cleared the blockage and have drained, refilled & ran it 3 times now with just water. Once it's noticeably clear, I'll flush it good and swap out the radiator.
I have to be extra careful not to drip anything but water due to a city inspector who lives down the street.
===
Well, I finally found a few minutes to slip away from repairs here at the old Hainey place. I drain a few times over the past day or so and last added a cup of Cascade and ran that for a day. Now I'm heading out to flush, replace the radiator, etc., etc. If anybody needs 8 gallons of slightly used might be good premixed & unfiltered coolant, let me know before I send it for recycling.
This is the kind of video I like - reminds me of myself. Have to take some of it with a grain of salt, but still much more useful than the scripted slick ones. I especially like the comment in Part 1 - "just flush it down the drain - sewer companies don't mind"... LOL!! And then the description he added later about - be sure to recycle!
http://youtu.be/jjnKOPdPxbQ
the sewer is the only place we CAN put coolant here. Not the storm
drain, of course. The sewer. The one we pay a bill for. No recycling
like that.
GW
Thanks for the info - I'll check with the sanitation district tomorrow. If that's OK here, that will save me from hauling 15 gallon jugs to the haz mat place. I despise dealing with the city about anything. They log every time you sneeze these days.

===

Tuesday, I hooked up the flush kit and flushed it out until I ran out of empty buckets and jugs. Ended up with about 24 gallons.

Wednesday I had to use the car, so I filled it up with the cleanest old coolant from last weekend which was clear after I had let the mud settle out. It only took about 7 quarts, so I'm guessing the radiator is still pretty much plugged up.

Today, I was all set to finally take a whirl at this. Looked like a 1-2 hour job until I got to removing the trans fluid connections. Top one came loose fine. Other one is not budging. Will have to drop some penetration fluid on it and let it sit. Any other ideas about getting this loose? I don't want risk breaking the line if I can help it.

Also ran into trouble getting the fan clutch off the water pump shaft. I replaced this once before, and only had to push down on the belt to keep the pulleys from turning. This time, the belt must be looser because it's slipping. Belt dressing I have says not to use it on serpentine belts, so that's out. Manuals say there's a 2nd nut you can use to hold the shaft in place, but I can't see it anywhere. Nothing in front of the pulley for sure, and less than 1/8 in in back of the pulley.

Looks like there's enough room to pull the radiator out without having to remove the fan/clutch. Will try that first - after I get the trans lines both loose.

If I have to take all out, I'm going to look at drilling a 1/8-inch hole in that water pump pulley and one opposite it to balance it. So next time I can stick a rod through one and hold the pulley in place.

Feel free to chime in with all types of advice and insulting comments! Being married, I'm used to all that.

During this adventure, I found and fixed all sorts of vacuum leaks, connections, broken this and that. Enough work to keep me out of the house for weeks!

PS -- A fellow shade tree master mechanic says to put something between the belt the pulley to hold it in place. So I'll try that tomorrow.

I checked out the "special tool" that Ford recommends at the auto parts place. It's just a $20 wrench with a long handle. Not much other use for it other than this. So I think I'll give my BFW and a length of 2-in pipe a shot at it first.
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