Discussion:
How to determine timing gear condition 2.8?
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blowout preventer
2012-09-22 18:06:08 UTC
Permalink
I have an '88 Cavalier 2.8 which ran perfectly normal until I shut it
off and when I went to start it 2 hours later it just cranks and cranks.
I just towed it home and haven't looked at it yet.
The engine has unknown miles, as it's not original.
I am going to check a few things first, like the crank sensor, which
on these are known to leach oil from the crankcase through the sensor
and onto the prongs the harness plugs onto, and cause a no-start, and
can be blasted off with electronic cleaner periodically (per a TSB on
the subject) to avoid that problem. So I routinely do that every time
I change the oil, but in this case, that wasn't all that long ago, so
I'm thinking that's not the problem. But it acts the same.

In my experience, when a timing gear goes out it acts just like that
(runs normal, then suddenly won't start). How do you determine the
position of the timing gear on these (it is an MPFI with no
distributor).
I can't tell by the way it cranks if the valve timing is good or bad
-- it cranks plenty fast, but I don't know if it's faster than usual,
since it just pops right off normally.

Also, any other time I've had a timing gear go bad, IIRC the engine
was firing at weird times and trying to run backwards. But they were
all distributor equipped. This one doesn't do that, but could that be
because it is crank-triggered? I can't tell if it's firing at all, and
I didn't smell gasoline while trying to start it. It just cranks and
cranks.
Paul in Houston TX
2012-09-22 19:28:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by blowout preventer
I have an '88 Cavalier 2.8 which ran perfectly normal until I shut it
off and when I went to start it 2 hours later it just cranks and cranks.
I just towed it home and haven't looked at it yet.
The engine has unknown miles, as it's not original.
I am going to check a few things first, like the crank sensor, which
on these are known to leach oil from the crankcase through the sensor
and onto the prongs the harness plugs onto, and cause a no-start, and
can be blasted off with electronic cleaner periodically (per a TSB on
the subject) to avoid that problem. So I routinely do that every time
I change the oil, but in this case, that wasn't all that long ago, so
I'm thinking that's not the problem. But it acts the same.
In my experience, when a timing gear goes out it acts just like that
(runs normal, then suddenly won't start). How do you determine the
position of the timing gear on these (it is an MPFI with no
distributor).
I can't tell by the way it cranks if the valve timing is good or bad
-- it cranks plenty fast, but I don't know if it's faster than usual,
since it just pops right off normally.
Also, any other time I've had a timing gear go bad, IIRC the engine
was firing at weird times and trying to run backwards. But they were
all distributor equipped. This one doesn't do that, but could that be
because it is crank-triggered? I can't tell if it's firing at all, and
I didn't smell gasoline while trying to start it. It just cranks and
cranks.
Compression test will tell you if the cam timing is off.
blowout preventer
2012-09-24 23:47:24 UTC
Permalink
I checked the crankshaft sensor and sprayed it with electronic
cleaner. In doing so I snapped off the clip which holds the connectors
together. The whole thing seems pretty crispy.

Can I get another pigtail to solder onto the wiring harness to replace
the broken one (like you can for parking lights etc}?
Or is that circuit using shielded wire of some kind since it only
carries very low voltage pulses?

Also, long story short, I found a blown fuse which runs the ign and
injectors. What is likely the cause of that? Shorted injector? The
ign module (that the coils plug onto) is fairly new, and none of the
injectors are new.
Paul in Houston TX
2012-09-25 00:30:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by blowout preventer
I checked the crankshaft sensor and sprayed it with electronic
cleaner. In doing so I snapped off the clip which holds the connectors
together. The whole thing seems pretty crispy.
Can I get another pigtail to solder onto the wiring harness to replace
the broken one (like you can for parking lights etc}?
Or is that circuit using shielded wire of some kind since it only
carries very low voltage pulses?
Also, long story short, I found a blown fuse which runs the ign and
injectors. What is likely the cause of that? Shorted injector? The
ign module (that the coils plug onto) is fairly new, and none of the
injectors are new.
My guesses:
It seems like GM has always had problems with crank sensors.
The early ones are simple coils of wire. RockAuto has
connectors. Yours is 2 conductor. About $12.
The coil is just a pulse generator, its not Hall Effect.
I have never dealt with RockAuto but I like their online catalog.
It has nice pictures.
The fuse... idk. They do go bad from age, heat, etc.
A shorted injector may not matter to the fuse since a good one is
low ohms, high current, short duration.
Ashton Crusher
2012-09-25 00:59:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by blowout preventer
I checked the crankshaft sensor and sprayed it with electronic
cleaner. In doing so I snapped off the clip which holds the connectors
together. The whole thing seems pretty crispy.
Can I get another pigtail to solder onto the wiring harness to replace
the broken one (like you can for parking lights etc}?
Or is that circuit using shielded wire of some kind since it only
carries very low voltage pulses?
I've seen some replacement connectors with pigtails in auto parts
stores but don't know about that one in particular. But you could
just glue it back in place. With just a relatively small amount of
silicone sealant glue it might be reversible if you need to get it off
later.
Post by blowout preventer
Also, long story short, I found a blown fuse which runs the ign and
injectors. What is likely the cause of that? Shorted injector? The
ign module (that the coils plug onto) is fairly new, and none of the
injectors are new.
Too many unknowns for me to answer that one.

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