Dead Electrical 1996 Ford Ranger

Discussion:

(too old to reply)

Snuffy "Hub Cap" McKinney

2016-04-05 17:07:59 UTC

Out of the blue, I turned the key and the started jerked and stopped. Next turn solenoid clicked only. After that no sound on turning key. No radio, panel lights, headlights, etc. My guess at this point is that there is a bad negative ground.

No ongoing symptoms before today. Battery is new and checks out as fully charged. Voltage OK at the solenoid relay on the inside wall.

Searched last night for a main fuse or fusible links. Wiring diagrams show them but do not tell where to look for them. I assume close to the battery -- will spend some time now looking and TS with a meter.

Any other suggestions?

Snuffy "Hub Cap" McKinney

2016-04-05 18:46:25 UTC

Permalink

"Snuffy "Hub Cap" McKinney" <Snuffy-Hub-***@Livebait-McKinney.com> wrote in message news:YJWdnemy_MwzbZ7KnZ2dnUU7-***@earthlink.com...
Out of the blue, I turned the key and the started jerked and stopped. Next turn solenoid clicked only. After that no sound on turning key. No radio, panel lights, headlights, etc. My guess at this point is that there is a bad negative ground.

No ongoing symptoms before today. Battery is new and checks out as fully charged. Voltage OK at the solenoid relay on the inside wall.

Searched last night for a main fuse or fusible links. Wiring diagrams show them but do not tell where to look for them. I assume close to the battery -- will spend some time now looking and TS with a meter.

Any other suggestions?

===

Update from today....

I turned the key this morning and it started right up. When I got back home, I turned it off and on a few times and started each time without hesitation.

This morning the clock showed 5:30. When power is restored, the clock starts at 12:00. This means that the power was restored to the clock about the time I stopped troubleshooting yesterday. Last thing I did yesterday before locking it up was try to start it and all was dead, including panel, radio, lights, etc. Unless slamming the door jiggled a connection, I don't know what would have caused it. It would not be a heat-related problem because the engine was never started that day.

I don't want to go driving around town not knowing what the problem is but I'm stumped now.

So I guess what I'm looking for is some things to check the next time it won't start.

c***@snyder.on.ca

2016-04-05 23:50:45 UTC

Permalink

On Tue, 5 Apr 2016 11:46:25 -0700, "Snuffy \"Hub Cap\" McKinney"

Post by Snuffy "Hub Cap" McKinney
Out of the blue, I turned the key and the started jerked and stopped. Next turn solenoid clicked only. After that no sound on turning key. No radio, panel lights, headlights, etc. My guess at this point is that there is a bad negative ground.
No ongoing symptoms before today. Battery is new and checks out as fully charged. Voltage OK at the solenoid relay on the inside wall.
Searched last night for a main fuse or fusible links. Wiring diagrams show them but do not tell where to look for them. I assume close to the battery -- will spend some time now looking and TS with a meter.
Any other suggestions?
===
Update from today....
I turned the key this morning and it started right up. When I got back home, I turned it off and on a few times and started each time without hesitation.
This morning the clock showed 5:30. When power is restored, the clock starts at 12:00. This means that the power was restored to the clock about the time I stopped troubleshooting yesterday. Last thing I did yesterday before locking it up was try to start it and all was dead, including panel, radio, lights, etc. Unless slamming the door jiggled a connection, I don't know what would have caused it. It would not be a heat-related problem because the engine was never started that day.
I don't want to go driving around town not knowing what the problem is but I'm stumped now.
So I guess what I'm looking for is some things to check the next time it won't start.

I'd bet you your morning coffee it's a bad battery connection.

Kevin Bottorff

2016-04-06 19:14:57 UTC

Permalink

Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
On Tue, 5 Apr 2016 11:46:25 -0700, "Snuffy \"Hub Cap\" McKinney"

Post by Snuffy "Hub Cap" McKinney
blue, I turned the key and the started jerked and stopped. Next turn
solenoid clicked only. After that no sound on turning key. No
radio, panel lights, headlights, etc. My guess at this point is that
there is a bad negative ground.
No ongoing symptoms before today. Battery is new and checks out as
fully charged. Voltage OK at the solenoid relay on the inside wall.
Searched last night for a main fuse or fusible links. Wiring diagrams
show them but do not tell where to look for them. I assume close to
the battery -- will spend some time now looking and TS with a meter.
Any other suggestions?
===
Update from today....
I turned the key this morning and it started right up. When I got
back home, I turned it off and on a few times and started each time
without hesitation.
This morning the clock showed 5:30. When power is restored, the clock
starts at 12:00. This means that the power was restored to the clock
about the time I stopped troubleshooting yesterday. Last thing I did
yesterday before locking it up was try to start it and all was dead,
including panel, radio, lights, etc. Unless slamming the door jiggled
a connection, I don't know what would have caused it. It would not be
a heat-related problem because the engine was never started that day.
I don't want to go driving around town not knowing what the problem is but I'm stumped now.
So I guess what I'm looking for is some things to check the next time it won't start.

I'd bet you your morning coffee it's a bad battery connection.

I would bet its the connection on or the sloinoid itself. pretty
common on them. KB

Snuffy "Hub Cap" McKinney

2016-04-06 20:49:23 UTC

Permalink

Post by Kevin Bottorff

Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
On Tue, 5 Apr 2016 11:46:25 -0700, "Snuffy \"Hub Cap\" McKinney"

Post by Snuffy "Hub Cap" McKinney
blue, I turned the key and the started jerked and stopped. Next turn
solenoid clicked only. After that no sound on turning key. No
radio, panel lights, headlights, etc. My guess at this point is that
there is a bad negative ground.
No ongoing symptoms before today. Battery is new and checks out as
fully charged. Voltage OK at the solenoid relay on the inside wall.
Searched last night for a main fuse or fusible links. Wiring diagrams
show them but do not tell where to look for them. I assume close to
the battery -- will spend some time now looking and TS with a meter.
Any other suggestions?
===
Update from today....
I turned the key this morning and it started right up. When I got
back home, I turned it off and on a few times and started each time
without hesitation.
This morning the clock showed 5:30. When power is restored, the clock
starts at 12:00. This means that the power was restored to the clock
about the time I stopped troubleshooting yesterday. Last thing I did
yesterday before locking it up was try to start it and all was dead,
including panel, radio, lights, etc. Unless slamming the door jiggled
a connection, I don't know what would have caused it. It would not be
a heat-related problem because the engine was never started that day.
I don't want to go driving around town not knowing what the problem is
but I'm stumped now.
So I guess what I'm looking for is some things to check the next time it won't start.

I'd bet you your morning coffee it's a bad battery connection.

I would bet its the connection on or the sloinoid itself. pretty
common on them. KB

From what I saw this morning, I'd say you both are hitting it on the head. I was checking the cables and noticed the prettiest shade of green you ever saw peeking out from under the insulation on the neg cable. Cables from the pos post look OK. Will check it out more and the connections. I suspect I'll have to replace the cable - I remember cutting it off once before when I changed the battery. Probably not long enough now for more trimming.

c***@snyder.on.ca

2016-04-05 23:49:38 UTC

Permalink

On Tue, 5 Apr 2016 10:07:59 -0700, "Snuffy \"Hub Cap\" McKinney"

First the obviose. Do a voltage drop test on bith pos and neg battery
connections, then do voltage drop from pos battery post to solenoid
post, and from neg post to engine block.. Do the test with the key in
start position and headlights on.

That should nail down WHERE the problem is - then you can visually
trace down WHAT the problem is.

Really a very simple problem to troubleshoot.

Snuffy "Hub Cap" McKinney

2016-04-07 03:08:23 UTC

Permalink

Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
On Tue, 5 Apr 2016 10:07:59 -0700, "Snuffy \"Hub Cap\" McKinney"

First the obviose. Do a voltage drop test on bith pos and neg battery
connections, then do voltage drop from pos battery post to solenoid
post, and from neg post to engine block.. Do the test with the key in
start position and headlights on.
That should nail down WHERE the problem is - then you can visually
trace down WHAT the problem is.
Really a very simple problem to troubleshoot.

Welp! You were right as usual. My crawling in the mud clothes are in the laundry so I'll get to the under car connections later. I suspect those connections are OK - I was careful about cleaning and tightening those when I swapped out the starter last week.

There was enough under the hood to keep me busy today. It was obvious that most of the connections needed cleaning, so I took each loose one at a time one, cleaned them and fastened back. Afterwards everything worked noticeably better - starting, lights, radio, you name it. The sun came out and birds started singing. I measured voltage drops and resistance before and after, and much better on nearly ever conductor.

One question.... on the solenoid relay, the nuts on the 2 posts going to the battery and solenoid have nuts on them with spinning washers fastened to the side that contacts the ring connectors. Checking with the meter, I saw that the outside of each nut has some kind of insulating coating on it. I've never seen those type before especially where several ring connectors are supposed make good connections. Even the face of the nuts are insulated. Any idea what the story is about those?

c***@snyder.on.ca

2016-04-07 23:17:04 UTC

Permalink

On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 20:08:23 -0700, "Snuffy \"Hub Cap\" McKinney"

Post by Snuffy "Hub Cap" McKinney

Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
On Tue, 5 Apr 2016 10:07:59 -0700, "Snuffy \"Hub Cap\" McKinney"

First the obviose. Do a voltage drop test on bith pos and neg battery
connections, then do voltage drop from pos battery post to solenoid
post, and from neg post to engine block.. Do the test with the key in
start position and headlights on.
That should nail down WHERE the problem is - then you can visually
trace down WHAT the problem is.
Really a very simple problem to troubleshoot.

Welp! You were right as usual. My crawling in the mud clothes are in the laundry so I'll get to the under car connections later. I suspect those connections are OK - I was careful about cleaning and tightening those when I swapped out the starter last week.
There was enough under the hood to keep me busy today. It was obvious that most of the connections needed cleaning, so I took each loose one at a time one, cleaned them and fastened back. Afterwards everything worked noticeably better - starting, lights, radio, you name it. The sun came out and birds started singing. I measured voltage drops and resistance before and after, and much better on nearly ever conductor.
One question.... on the solenoid relay, the nuts on the 2 posts going to the battery and solenoid have nuts on them with spinning washers fastened to the side that contacts the ring connectors. Checking with the meter, I saw that the outside of each nut has some kind of insulating coating on it. I've never seen those type before especially where several ring connectors are supposed make good connections. Even the face of the nuts are insulated. Any idea what the story is about those?

Not sure exactly what coating you mean - I'll have to look at my '96.
Any insulating coating on the nuts would be for safety or corrosion
protection.

Snuffy "Hub Cap" McKinney

2016-04-07 23:56:38 UTC

Permalink

Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 20:08:23 -0700, "Snuffy \"Hub Cap\" McKinney"

Post by Snuffy "Hub Cap" McKinney

Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
On Tue, 5 Apr 2016 10:07:59 -0700, "Snuffy \"Hub Cap\" McKinney"

First the obviose. Do a voltage drop test on bith pos and neg battery
connections, then do voltage drop from pos battery post to solenoid
post, and from neg post to engine block.. Do the test with the key in
start position and headlights on.
That should nail down WHERE the problem is - then you can visually
trace down WHAT the problem is.
Really a very simple problem to troubleshoot.

Welp! You were right as usual. My crawling in the mud clothes are in the laundry so I'll get to the under car connections later. I suspect those connections are OK - I was careful about cleaning and tightening those when I swapped out the starter last week.
There was enough under the hood to keep me busy today. It was obvious that most of the connections needed cleaning, so I took each loose one at a time one, cleaned them and fastened back. Afterwards everything worked noticeably better - starting, lights, radio, you name it. The sun came out and birds started singing. I measured voltage drops and resistance before and after, and much better on nearly ever conductor.
One question.... on the solenoid relay, the nuts on the 2 posts going to the battery and solenoid have nuts on them with spinning washers fastened to the side that contacts the ring connectors. Checking with the meter, I saw that the outside of each nut has some kind of insulating coating on it. I've never seen those type before especially where several ring connectors are supposed make good connections. Even the face of the nuts are insulated. Any idea what the story is about those?

Not sure exactly what coating you mean - I'll have to look at my '96.
Any insulating coating on the nuts would be for safety or corrosion
protection.

I think the coating is teflon or similar. I could scratch it with the meter lead and contact the nut. No coating on the spinning washer. They look like these, except mine don't have the toothed washer. You can see the concave washer inside that spins.
Loading Image...

SC Tom

2016-04-11 12:11:34 UTC

Permalink

Post by Snuffy "Hub Cap" McKinney

Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 20:08:23 -0700, "Snuffy \"Hub Cap\" McKinney"

Post by Snuffy "Hub Cap" McKinney

Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
On Tue, 5 Apr 2016 10:07:59 -0700, "Snuffy \"Hub Cap\" McKinney"

First the obviose. Do a voltage drop test on bith pos and neg battery
connections, then do voltage drop from pos battery post to solenoid
post, and from neg post to engine block.. Do the test with the key in
start position and headlights on.
That should nail down WHERE the problem is - then you can visually
trace down WHAT the problem is.
Really a very simple problem to troubleshoot.

Welp! You were right as usual. My crawling in the mud clothes are in
the laundry so I'll get to the under car connections later. I suspect
those connections are OK - I was careful about cleaning and tightening
those when I swapped out the starter last week.
There was enough under the hood to keep me busy today. It was obvious
that most of the connections needed cleaning, so I took each loose one
at a time one, cleaned them and fastened back. Afterwards everything
worked noticeably better - starting, lights, radio, you name it. The
sun came out and birds started singing. I measured voltage drops and
resistance before and after, and much better on nearly ever conductor.
One question.... on the solenoid relay, the nuts on the 2 posts going to
the battery and solenoid have nuts on them with spinning washers
fastened to the side that contacts the ring connectors. Checking with
the meter, I saw that the outside of each nut has some kind of
insulating coating on it. I've never seen those type before especially
where several ring connectors are supposed make good connections. Even
the face of the nuts are insulated. Any idea what the story is about
those?

Not sure exactly what coating you mean - I'll have to look at my '96.
Any insulating coating on the nuts would be for safety or corrosion
protection.

I think the coating is teflon or similar. I could scratch it with the
meter lead and contact the nut. No coating on the spinning washer. They
look like these, except mine don't have the toothed washer. You can see
the concave washer inside that spins.
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NjAwWDYwMA==/z/bHMAAOSwmrlU0tkk/$_12.JPG

The beveled part shouldn't spin. It's just an extension of the threaded area
that is flared to hold the lock washer in place, be it the toothed one in
the picture or the smooth washer type.

I've seen the insulated/coated nuts before- we used them on
high-voltage/amperage power supplies in our milling machines. They never
really made much sense to me since the post that they were screwed on to
extended beyond the end of the nut and wasn't insulated, and the lug that
was held in place by the insulated nut obviously wasn't or a connection
couldn't be made using the smooth non-toothed washer :-) I think the coating
may be more for corrosion protection than electrical insulation.

--
SC Tom

Snuffy "Hub Cap" McKinney

2016-04-12 18:31:24 UTC

Permalink

Post by SC Tom

Post by Snuffy "Hub Cap" McKinney

Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 20:08:23 -0700, "Snuffy \"Hub Cap\" McKinney"

Post by Snuffy "Hub Cap" McKinney

Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
On Tue, 5 Apr 2016 10:07:59 -0700, "Snuffy \"Hub Cap\" McKinney"

First the obviose. Do a voltage drop test on bith pos and neg battery
connections, then do voltage drop from pos battery post to solenoid
post, and from neg post to engine block.. Do the test with the key in
start position and headlights on.
That should nail down WHERE the problem is - then you can visually
trace down WHAT the problem is.
Really a very simple problem to troubleshoot.

Welp! You were right as usual. My crawling in the mud clothes are in
the laundry so I'll get to the under car connections later. I suspect
those connections are OK - I was careful about cleaning and tightening
those when I swapped out the starter last week.
There was enough under the hood to keep me busy today. It was obvious
that most of the connections needed cleaning, so I took each loose one
at a time one, cleaned them and fastened back. Afterwards everything
worked noticeably better - starting, lights, radio, you name it. The
sun came out and birds started singing. I measured voltage drops and
resistance before and after, and much better on nearly ever conductor.
One question.... on the solenoid relay, the nuts on the 2 posts going to
the battery and solenoid have nuts on them with spinning washers
fastened to the side that contacts the ring connectors. Checking with
the meter, I saw that the outside of each nut has some kind of
insulating coating on it. I've never seen those type before especially
where several ring connectors are supposed make good connections. Even
the face of the nuts are insulated. Any idea what the story is about
those?

Not sure exactly what coating you mean - I'll have to look at my '96.
Any insulating coating on the nuts would be for safety or corrosion
protection.

I think the coating is teflon or similar. I could scratch it with the
meter lead and contact the nut. No coating on the spinning washer. They
look like these, except mine don't have the toothed washer. You can see
the concave washer inside that spins.
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NjAwWDYwMA==/z/bHMAAOSwmrlU0tkk/$_12.JPG

The beveled part shouldn't spin. It's just an extension of the threaded area
that is flared to hold the lock washer in place, be it the toothed one in
the picture or the smooth washer type.
I've seen the insulated/coated nuts before- we used them on
high-voltage/amperage power supplies in our milling machines. They never
really made much sense to me since the post that they were screwed on to
extended beyond the end of the nut and wasn't insulated, and the lug that
was held in place by the insulated nut obviously wasn't or a connection
couldn't be made using the smooth non-toothed washer :-) I think the coating
may be more for corrosion protection than electrical insulation.
--
SC Tom

I'll take a photo if I don't forget..... The has only the spinning beveled washer - no lock washer. There are two of these nuts, both identical, both spin.

Snuffy "Hub Cap" McKinney

2016-04-13 00:29:40 UTC

Permalink

Post by SC Tom

Post by Snuffy "Hub Cap" McKinney

Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 20:08:23 -0700, "Snuffy \"Hub Cap\" McKinney"

Post by Snuffy "Hub Cap" McKinney

Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
On Tue, 5 Apr 2016 10:07:59 -0700, "Snuffy \"Hub Cap\" McKinney"

First the obviose. Do a voltage drop test on bith pos and neg battery
connections, then do voltage drop from pos battery post to solenoid
post, and from neg post to engine block.. Do the test with the key in
start position and headlights on.
That should nail down WHERE the problem is - then you can visually
trace down WHAT the problem is.
Really a very simple problem to troubleshoot.

Welp! You were right as usual. My crawling in the mud clothes are in
the laundry so I'll get to the under car connections later. I suspect
those connections are OK - I was careful about cleaning and tightening
those when I swapped out the starter last week.
There was enough under the hood to keep me busy today. It was obvious
that most of the connections needed cleaning, so I took each loose one
at a time one, cleaned them and fastened back. Afterwards everything
worked noticeably better - starting, lights, radio, you name it. The
sun came out and birds started singing. I measured voltage drops and
resistance before and after, and much better on nearly ever conductor.
One question.... on the solenoid relay, the nuts on the 2 posts going to
the battery and solenoid have nuts on them with spinning washers
fastened to the side that contacts the ring connectors. Checking with
the meter, I saw that the outside of each nut has some kind of
insulating coating on it. I've never seen those type before especially
where several ring connectors are supposed make good connections. Even
the face of the nuts are insulated. Any idea what the story is about
those?

Not sure exactly what coating you mean - I'll have to look at my '96.
Any insulating coating on the nuts would be for safety or corrosion
protection.

I think the coating is teflon or similar. I could scratch it with the
meter lead and contact the nut. No coating on the spinning washer. They
look like these, except mine don't have the toothed washer. You can see
the concave washer inside that spins.
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NjAwWDYwMA==/z/bHMAAOSwmrlU0tkk/$_12.JPG

The beveled part shouldn't spin. It's just an extension of the threaded area
that is flared to hold the lock washer in place, be it the toothed one in
the picture or the smooth washer type.
I've seen the insulated/coated nuts before- we used them on
high-voltage/amperage power supplies in our milling machines. They never
really made much sense to me since the post that they were screwed on to
extended beyond the end of the nut and wasn't insulated, and the lug that
was held in place by the insulated nut obviously wasn't or a connection
couldn't be made using the smooth non-toothed washer :-) I think the coating
may be more for corrosion protection than electrical insulation.
--
SC Tom

- I'll take a photo if I don't forget..... The has only the spinning beveled washer - no lock washer. There are two of these nuts, both identical, both spin.

I did a little searching. They're called KEPS nuts. Will start a new thread for this one.