Chevy 2.2 Timing chain

[Bob Urz]

I was going down the road at about 45 in my 1996 S10 when it just quit
running. I am lucky I got it to the side of the road before getting ran
over. Tried to restart it. Its cranking sound is different now. I don't
here the compression strokes. Would not fire at all.

I am assuming the timing chain has either jumped a gear or broke. Its
cold so its not a today project. Or could this be some kind of tensioner
problem. I thought the 2.2 was not an interference engine. Is this true?
Otherwise, i suppose its straight to taking the head off.

What are the issues with timing chain tensions on the 2.2?
What special tools are required? DO i need to pull the harmonic balancer
as well as the cam gear? All insight before the tear down will
be appreciated.

Bob

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[Woody]

I would think the first thing to do is determine if it is the timing chain
rather than jumping to conclusions. A little diagnostic work may save you a
lot of grief.

Post by Bob Urz
I was going down the road at about 45 in my 1996 S10 when it just quit
running. I am lucky I got it to the side of the road before getting ran
over. Tried to restart it. Its cranking sound is different now. I don't
here the compression strokes. Would not fire at all.
I am assuming the timing chain has either jumped a gear or broke. Its cold
so its not a today project. Or could this be some kind of tensioner
problem. I thought the 2.2 was not an interference engine. Is this true?
Otherwise, i suppose its straight to taking the head off.
What are the issues with timing chain tensions on the 2.2?
What special tools are required? DO i need to pull the harmonic balancer
as well as the cam gear? All insight before the tear down will
be appreciated.
Bob
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[Bob Urz]

Post by Woody
I would think the first thing to do is determine if it is the timing chain
rather than jumping to conclusions. A little diagnostic work may save you a
lot of grief.

Since the truck is dead, grief is relative. Its Not turning over with
the proper compression sound. A little on line research shows that its
not uncommon for the chain tensioner on 2.2 to go bad on these and
possibly cause the chain to jump teeth. Got it towed by a buddy and i
will tear into it next week. I am hoping if it is just a jump of a few
teeth that there is no valve damage. I did not hear any mechanical
noise when it quit. Or when i cranked it after the fact.
I have heard noise in the front of the engine for awhile. I assumed it
was just the serp belt tensioner. My fault for NOT looking closer at it
before it died.


Now the task is trying to figure out how to get it apart. I do have the
shop manual now. Hopefully standard pullers will allow me to remove the
crank pulley and the crank pulley mount flange.

The timing chain cover seems to bolt to the oil pan.
(the shop manual shows two lower bolts into the oil pan)
The manual does not say specifically if the oil pan has to come off or
not. Also, the tensioner is an issue. Is the OEM any better than an
after market or des it matter? Surely Ian would know about this and shed
some light on the situation.

Bob

Post by Woody

Post by Bob Urz
I was going down the road at about 45 in my 1996 S10 when it just quit
running. I am lucky I got it to the side of the road before getting ran
over. Tried to restart it. Its cranking sound is different now. I don't
here the compression strokes. Would not fire at all.
I am assuming the timing chain has either jumped a gear or broke. Its cold
so its not a today project. Or could this be some kind of tensioner
problem. I thought the 2.2 was not an interference engine. Is this true?
Otherwise, i suppose its straight to taking the head off.
What are the issues with timing chain tensions on the 2.2?
What special tools are required? DO i need to pull the harmonic balancer
as well as the cam gear? All insight before the tear down will
be appreciated.
Bob

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[shiden_kai]

Post by Bob Urz
Since the truck is dead, grief is relative. Its Not turning over with
the proper compression sound. A little on line research shows that its
not uncommon for the chain tensioner on 2.2 to go bad on these and
possibly cause the chain to jump teeth. Got it towed by a buddy and i
will tear into it next week. I am hoping if it is just a jump of a few
teeth that there is no valve damage. I did not hear any mechanical
noise when it quit. Or when i cranked it after the fact.
I have heard noise in the front of the engine for awhile.

You may find that chain is broken. I've seen a few of these engines
where the tensioner goes sideways and things get jammed up and
the chain gets broken.

Post by Bob Urz
Now the task is trying to figure out how to get it apart. I do have
the shop manual now. Hopefully standard pullers will allow me to remove
the crank pulley and the crank pulley mount flange.

Yes, no big deal really.

Post by Bob Urz
The timing chain cover seems to bolt to the oil pan.
(the shop manual shows two lower bolts into the oil pan)
The manual does not say specifically if the oil pan has to come off or
not. Also, the tensioner is an issue. Is the OEM any better than an
after market or des it matter? Surely Ian would know about this and
shed some light on the situation.

You don't have to take off the oil pan. The seal on the front cover to
the oil pan is RTV, so once you've cleaned all the old RTV off, and
have cleaned both the pan surface and the front cover surface so that
they are "clean and dry", you can simply lay down a good bead of
RTV on the pan surface and then put the front cover in place.

I seem to remember that the tensioner on this engine has been updated.
I've used aftermarket ones years ago on the same basic engine, and they
ended up coming apart in weeks.

Oh, the front timing cover seal does require a special tool to get into
the front cover properly when the front cover is still attached to
the engine, but if you have the front cover off, you ought to be able
to find something that is the correct diameter to use as an installer.

Ian

[Bob Urz]

Post by shiden_kai

Post by Bob Urz
Since the truck is dead, grief is relative. Its Not turning over with
the proper compression sound. A little on line research shows that its
not uncommon for the chain tensioner on 2.2 to go bad on these and
possibly cause the chain to jump teeth. Got it towed by a buddy and i
will tear into it next week. I am hoping if it is just a jump of a few
teeth that there is no valve damage. I did not hear any mechanical
noise when it quit. Or when i cranked it after the fact.
I have heard noise in the front of the engine for awhile.

You may find that chain is broken. I've seen a few of these engines
where the tensioner goes sideways and things get jammed up and
the chain gets broken.

Post by Bob Urz
Now the task is trying to figure out how to get it apart. I do have
the shop manual now. Hopefully standard pullers will allow me to remove
the crank pulley and the crank pulley mount flange.

Yes, no big deal really.

Post by Bob Urz
The timing chain cover seems to bolt to the oil pan.
(the shop manual shows two lower bolts into the oil pan)
The manual does not say specifically if the oil pan has to come off or
not. Also, the tensioner is an issue. Is the OEM any better than an
after market or des it matter? Surely Ian would know about this and
shed some light on the situation.

You don't have to take off the oil pan. The seal on the front cover to
the oil pan is RTV, so once you've cleaned all the old RTV off, and
have cleaned both the pan surface and the front cover surface so that
they are "clean and dry", you can simply lay down a good bead of
RTV on the pan surface and then put the front cover in place.
I seem to remember that the tensioner on this engine has been updated.
I've used aftermarket ones years ago on the same basic engine, and they
ended up coming apart in weeks.
Oh, the front timing cover seal does require a special tool to get into
the front cover properly when the front cover is still attached to
the engine, but if you have the front cover off, you ought to be able
to find something that is the correct diameter to use as an installer.
Ian

Thank you so much for the response. I knew if anyone here was
knowledgeable about it that you should know. Now, your comment
about the tensioner has got me thinking. The after market ones
are around $20. I have not looked at one yet. There was another
post i found on Google about a guy who said he had tensioners go
bad ever 3000 to 5000 miles and it drove him nuts. Could this
be the issue with the aftermarket tensioners being crap?
Talked to my brother in law who talked to his friend who does
GM work and he seemed to think that most of the time only the
top cam gear and chain need to be replaced (and tensioner).
Do you think after market parts are OK for the chain and cam gear?


He also said he has seen some 2.2's with holes in the pistons and
bent valves. IN the units you have seen, how common is this?

Bob

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[shiden_kai]

Post by Bob Urz
Thank you so much for the response. I knew if anyone here was
knowledgeable about it that you should know. Now, your comment
about the tensioner has got me thinking. The after market ones
are around $20. I have not looked at one yet. There was another
post i found on Google about a guy who said he had tensioners go
bad ever 3000 to 5000 miles and it drove him nuts. Could this
be the issue with the aftermarket tensioners being crap?

Probably...I never had any luck with them and went back to
just using the GM stuff. I can't remember why I went with the
aftermarket stuff, as I'm usually not into that. Probably had
a cheap friend on my hands (grin).

Post by Bob Urz
Talked to my brother in law who talked to his friend who does
GM work and he seemed to think that most of the time only the
top cam gear and chain need to be replaced (and tensioner).
Do you think after market parts are OK for the chain and cam gear?

Oh yeah...the chain and gears seem to be fine even if they are
aftermarket. I'd agree too about the crank sprocket...unless you
can feel marks in it from the chain...I wouldn't bother changing it.

Post by Bob Urz
He also said he has seen some 2.2's with holes in the pistons and
bent valves. IN the units you have seen, how common is this?

Haven't seen that....but my advice would be to install a new chain
and tensioner and before you even put the front cover back on....do
a compression test. This will tell you right away if you bent any
valves. This is what I do so I don't waste my time and the customers
money putting the engine all back together again.

Ian

[itsallgood]

Post by Bob Urz
I was going down the road at about 45 in my 1996 S10 when it just quit
running. I am lucky I got it to the side of the road before getting ran
over. Tried to restart it. Its cranking sound is different now. I don't
here the compression strokes. Would not fire at all.
I am assuming the timing chain has either jumped a gear or broke. Its
cold so its not a today project. Or could this be some kind of

tensioner

Post by Bob Urz
problem. I thought the 2.2 was not an interference engine. Is this true?
Otherwise, i suppose its straight to taking the head off.
What are the issues with timing chain tensions on the 2.2?
What special tools are required? DO i need to pull the harmonic balancer
as well as the cam gear? All insight before the tear down will
be appreciated.
Bob
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Just how good are you at "hearing compression strokes" there Bob? Have
you ever broken a timing belt? Usually, the engine turns over extra
fast and that's pretty obvious. If that's not what you heard as
confirmation, then maybe you are wrong in diagnosing the belt right off
the bat. A fuel pump can quit like that all of a sudden as well. And
there's more.....

[Bob Urz]

Post by Bob Urz

Post by Bob Urz
I was going down the road at about 45 in my 1996 S10 when it just

quit

Post by Bob Urz
running. I am lucky I got it to the side of the road before getting

ran

Post by Bob Urz
over. Tried to restart it. Its cranking sound is different now. I

don't

Post by Bob Urz
here the compression strokes. Would not fire at all.
I am assuming the timing chain has either jumped a gear or broke. Its
cold so its not a today project. Or could this be some kind of

tensioner

Post by Bob Urz
problem. I thought the 2.2 was not an interference engine. Is this

true?

Post by Bob Urz
Otherwise, i suppose its straight to taking the head off.
What are the issues with timing chain tensions on the 2.2?
What special tools are required? DO i need to pull the harmonic

balancer

Post by Bob Urz
as well as the cam gear? All insight before the tear down will
be appreciated.
Bob
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News==----

Post by Bob Urz
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Just how good are you at "hearing compression strokes" there Bob? Have
you ever broken a timing belt?

Yes, i have. On my old Mazda that used a belt. And the sound of cranking
was instantly obvious that something was different. In the mazdas case
it was a belt, and a belt replacement got it back running. Same thing on
the S10. I know what it sounds like normal. It is cranking faster and
does not have the "same sound". Fuel or ignition problems would not
cause it to sound that different. No I am not an expert. But i do a lot
of my own work. I was hoping someone here had a 2.2 that had similar
problems for insight on the issue.

Usually, the engine turns over extra

Post by Bob Urz
fast and that's pretty obvious.

Yes, that's sort of what it seems. MY theory now is it jumped a few
teeth. Monday or Tuesday i well get the front of the motor tore down
and take the timing cover off. My B.I.L. is more of a mechanic guy
is going to listen to it before we tear into it. What i need to figure
out is what special tools i need if any. I have access to some pullers.
But i don't know if i need to replace the oil seal on the timing chain
cover if its intact. The shop manual mentions some special seal driver
and centering tool.

It really seems premature to tear the head off. I think i would rather
roll the dice and take the timing cover off and check the timing marks
and to see if the chain and tensioner is intact. Then replace the parts,
align them and see if it runs. If the head, pistons or valves were
damaged, i doubt that i could make it any worse.

If that's not what you heard as

Post by Bob Urz
confirmation, then maybe you are wrong in diagnosing the belt right off
the bat. A fuel pump can quit like that all of a sudden as well. And
there's more.....

I do have a spare fuel pump. But i think i have other checking to do
before i go there..... Wish me luck.

Bob

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[jking2012]

replying to Bob Urz, jking2012 wrote:
How did this work out? My son's truck is having similar problems.

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[Dardamar]

I am not familiar with the 2.2 at all, but i know on the older V8 engines
you could remove the oil fill cover and crank over the engine to see if the
valves are moving, if they arent moving, good chance that it is the timing
belt/chain...

Post by Bob Urz
I was going down the road at about 45 in my 1996 S10 when it just quit
running. I am lucky I got it to the side of the road before getting ran
over. Tried to restart it. Its cranking sound is different now. I don't
here the compression strokes. Would not fire at all.
I am assuming the timing chain has either jumped a gear or broke. Its cold
so its not a today project. Or could this be some kind of tensioner
problem. I thought the 2.2 was not an interference engine. Is this true?
Otherwise, i suppose its straight to taking the head off.
What are the issues with timing chain tensions on the 2.2?
What special tools are required? DO i need to pull the harmonic balancer
as well as the cam gear? All insight before the tear down will
be appreciated.
Bob
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[jking2012]

replying to Bob Urz, jking2012 wrote:
I was wondering how this worked out. My son's truck is having similar problems
and was hoping for advice. I'm thinking that it might have jumped time.. I've
had people tell me that it might have jumped time but also had someone tell us
that it hasn't. I'm pretty frustrated at this point. He was driving and it
quit. The engine is turning but not firing (recently had a friend check and
the spark plugs are getting fire). It's giving off these codes: P0141 O2
sensor heater circuit fault (bank 1, sensor 2). P0300 cylinder misfire
detected (random). P0342 camshaft position sensor circuit, low voltage. We
know that it's not fuel pump, O2 sensor, plugs/plug wires, camshaft position
sensor, crankshaft sensor, coil, fuses, or relay. I know that it could be so
many other things as well. I was hoping for some input because I really don't
want to go through all of the trouble and it turns out that isn't the problem.
Could a fuel injector cause this? Is there a way to find out if the timing
chain is a problem without tearing down to visually see it? Any and all advice
is very welcomed.

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[Paul in Houston TX]

Post by jking2012
I was wondering how this worked out. My son's truck is having similar problems
and was hoping for advice. I'm thinking that it might have jumped time.. I've
had people tell me that it might have jumped time but also had someone tell us
that it hasn't. I'm pretty frustrated at this point. He was driving and it
quit. The engine is turning but not firing (recently had a friend check and
the spark plugs are getting fire). It's giving off these codes: P0141 O2
sensor heater circuit fault (bank 1, sensor 2). P0300 cylinder misfire
detected (random). P0342 camshaft position sensor circuit, low voltage. We
know that it's not fuel pump, O2 sensor, plugs/plug wires, camshaft position
sensor, crankshaft sensor, coil, fuses, or relay. I know that it could be so
many other things as well. I was hoping for some input because I really don't
want to go through all of the trouble and it turns out that isn't the problem.
Could a fuel injector cause this? Is there a way to find out if the timing
chain is a problem without tearing down to visually see it? Any and all advice
is very welcomed.

The orig.post was 2005. 14 years ago.

What is the compression on each cylinder?
Does the ignition timing mark correspond to #1 TDC or close to it?
If the belt has jumped then the compression will be low and the
timing mark will be way off from TDC.

[jking2012]

replying to Bob Urz, jking2012 wrote:
I was wondering how this worked out. My son's truck is having similar problems
and was hoping for advice. I'm thinking that it might have jumped time.. I've
had people tell me that it might have jumped time but also had someone tell us
that it hasn't. I'm pretty frustrated at this point. He was driving and it
quit. The engine is turning but not firing (recently had a friend check and
the spark plugs are getting fire). It's giving off these codes: P0141 O2
sensor heater circuit fault (bank 1, sensor 2). P0300 cylinder misfire
detected (random). P0342 camshaft position sensor circuit, low voltage. We
know that it's not fuel pump, O2 sensor, plugs/plug wires, camshaft position
sensor, crankshaft sensor, coil, fuses, or relay. I know that it could be so
many other things as well. I was hoping for some input because I really don't
want to go through all of the trouble and it turns out that isn't the problem.
Could a fuel injector cause this? Is there a way to find out if the timing
chain is a problem without tearing down to visually see it? Any and all advice
is very welcomed.